MSNBC Delivers Biggest Audiences Ever in Total Day and Dayside in Third Quarter of 2016

    MSNBC Beats CNN in Weekday Prime Among Total Viewers for Second Straight Quarter; Ranks #3 in Prime Out of All Cable Networks 

    “Morning Joe” Continues Across-the-Board Wins Over CNN, Again Posts Best Morning Ratings in MSNBC’s 20 Year History

    “The Rachel Maddow Show” Tops CNN in Both Total Viewers and the Demo for 3Q16 and September


    SEPTEMBER 27, 2016 -- MSNBC drew its biggest total day audience ever in the third quarter of 2016, driven by growing momentum and wins across multiple key dayparts and demographics. MSNBC also drew its biggest total day (M-Su 6a-6a) audience among the A25-54 demo since the last presidential election (since 4Q12). MSNBC beat CNN in weekday prime (M-F 8-11pm) among total viewers for the second straight quarter, delivering the network’s largest primetime total audience in eight years (since 4Q08) and largest demo audience in four years (since 4Q12). MSNBC prime’s year-to-year growth is more than double that of CNN in both total viewers (+105% vs. +50%) and the A25-54 demo (+150% vs. +59%) compared to 3Q15. MSNBC prime was the third most-watched network in all of cable for the quarter, behind only FOX News and USA.

    At 9pm, “The Rachel Maddow Show” beat CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360” across the board for the third straight quarter, also marking “Maddow’s” 28th consecutive quarterly win over CNN in total viewers. Just one year into the revamped breaking news strategy during the day, MSNBC dayside (M-F 9am-5pm) drew the daypart’s biggest total viewer audience ever and best demo audience in four years (since 4Q12). MSNBC dayside continues to grow by significantly higher rates than any other cable news network, posting gains of +98% in total viewers (vs. +62% for CNN and +24% for FOX) and +159% in the demo (vs. +72% for CNN and +34% for FOX) compared to 3Q15. “Morning Joe” delivered the 6-9am time period’s biggest total viewer audience in MSNBC’s 20-year history, breaking the record for the third straight quarter. “Morning Joe” topped CNN in total viewers for the sixth straight quarter and in the demo for the third straight quarter.

    On the weekends, “AM Joy” (Sa-Su 10am-12pm) delivered the time period’s biggest total viewer audience since 1Q03 and biggest demo audience since 4Q12. MSNBC’s strong third quarter, which included coverage of the national party conventions, was capped off by record-high ratings and wins in the month of September. MSNBC beat third-place CNN among total viewers in weekday prime for the second straight month, and far outpaced the competition in year-to-year growth across important dayparts and demos. MSNBC’s total day audience was up by +74% in total viewers (vs. +11% for CNN and +26% for FOX) and +70% in the demo (vs. +19% for CNN and +34% for FOX) compared to September 2015. NOTE: 3Q16 ratings are based on Nielsen Live+Same data for 6/27/16-9/25/16. All data excludes Olympics programming. 3Q 2016 PROGRAM HIGHLIGHTS MORNING JOE (M-F 6-9am)

    • For the third straight quarter, “Morning Joe” delivered the biggest total viewer audience in the 6-9am time period in MSNBC’s history. “Morning Joe” also posted its highest demo average in four years (since 4Q12).
    • “Morning Joe” again topped CNN’s “New Day” among both total viewers and the demo. This marks the sixth straight quarterly win over CNN in total viewers and the third straight quarter in the demo.
    • “Morning Joe” posted higher year-to-year growth than the competition, up +68% among total viewers (vs. +55% for CNN and +31% for FOX) and up +74% in the demo (vs. +65% for CNN and +25% for FOX).
    • “Morning Joe” averaged 744,000 total viewers (ahead of CNN’s 522,000) and 172,000 viewers A25-54 (ahead of CNN’s 168,000).

    DAYSIDE (M-F 9am-5pm)

    • MSNBC dayside’s year-to-year growth continues to soar over the competition, posting gains of +98% in total viewers (vs. +62% for CNN and +24% for FOX) and +159% in the key demo (vs. +72% for CNN and +34% for FOX).
    • 3Q16 marks MSNBC dayside’s biggest total viewer audience ever and best demo average since 4Q12.
    • More cable news viewers are choosing MSNBC: the 9am-5pm daypart pulled in its largest share of the total viewer audience since 4Q12 and largest share of the demo audience since 1Q13.

    EARLY EVENING (M-F 5-8pm)

    • “MTP Daily with Chuck Todd” (5-6pm), which launched in September 2015, posted the 5pm time period’s best total viewer average since 4Q12 and best demo average since 1Q13.
    • “With All Due Respect” (6-7pm), which debuted on MSNBC in January 2016, delivered the 6pm time period’s highest total viewer average since 4Q12 and highest demo average since 1Q14.
    • “Hardball with Chris Matthews” (7-8pm), topped CNN among total viewers for the 13th straight quarter. 3Q16 marks “Hardball’s” best total viewer average since 4Q08 and best demo average since 4Q12.

    WEEKDAY PRIME (M-F 8-11pm)

    • MSNBC beat CNN to rank #2 in weekday prime among total viewers for the second straight quarter. 
    • MSNBC prime delivered its biggest total viewer audience since 4Q08 and best A25-54 demo delivery since 4Q12.
    • Compared to 3Q15, MSNBC prime is up +105% in total viewers (vs. +50% for CNN and +18% for FOX) and +150% in the demo (vs. +69% for CNN and +10% for FOX).
    • MSNBC prime averaged 1.536 million total viewers (ahead of CNN’s 1.414 million) and 367,000 viewers A25-54.
    • “All In with Chris Hayes” delivered its best averages in both total viewers and the demo since 4Q12.
    • Compared to 3Q15, “All In” is up +71% in total viewers (vs. +13% for FOX) and up +112% in the demo (vs. +102% for CNN and +10% for FOX).
    • “The Rachel Maddow Show” again ranked #2 in both total viewers and the demo, beating CNN’s regular programming for the 28th straight quarter in total viewers and third straight quarter in the demo.
    • “The Rachel Maddow Show” delivered its biggest total viewer audience since 4Q08 and biggest demo audience since 4Q12.
    • Compared to 3Q15, “The Rachel Maddow Show” is up +70% in total viewers (vs. 68% for CNN and +23% for FOX) and up +111% in the demo (vs. 81% for CNN and +24% for FOX).
    • “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” topped CNN’s regular programming in total viewers for the fifth straight quarter.
    • “The Last Word” delivered its best total viewer average ever and best demo average since 4Q12.
    • Compared to 3Q15, “The Last Word” is up +91% in total viewers (vs. +43% for FOX) and up +118% in the demo (vs. +99% for CNN and +39% for FOX).

    AM JOY (Sa-Su 10am-12pm)

    • Saturday editions of “AM Joy” averaged 702,000 total viewers and 174,000 viewers A25-54, marking the time period’s best total viewer average since 1Q03 and best demo average since 4Q12.
    • Sunday editions averaged 569,000 total viewers and 146,000 viewers A25-54, also marking the time period’s best total viewer average since 1Q03 and best demo average since 4Q12.


    • MSNBC weekday prime (M-F 8-11pm) ranked #2 ahead of CNN in total viewers for the second straight month.
    • Compared to September 2015, MSNBC prime is up +94% in total viewers (vs. CNN’s -40% drop and +24% for FOX) and up +121% in the demo (vs. CNN’s -35% drop and +27% for FOX).
    • “Morning Joe” (6-9am) ranked #2 in both total viewers and the demo, topping CNN across the board and marking the 18th straight monthly total viewer lead. Compared to September 2015, “Morning Joe” was up +69% in total viewers (vs. +28% for CNN and +30% for FOX) and +64% in the demo (vs. +42% for CNN and +20% for FOX).
    • MSNBC Dayside (9am-5pm) was up +76% in total viewers and +134% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing both CNN (+28% in total viewers and +42% in the demo) and FOX News (+16% in total viewers and +30% in the demo).
    • “Andrea Mitchell Reports” (12-1pm) was up +97% in total viewers and +207% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing both CNN (+30% in total viewers and +44% in the demo) and FOX News (+20% in total viewers and +30% in the demo).
    • “MTP Daily with Chuck Todd” (5-6pm) was up +85% in total viewers and +191% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing both CNN (+24% in total viewers and +42% the demo) and FOX News (+12% in total viewers and +20% in the demo).
    • “With All Due Respect” (6-7pm) was up +78% in total viewers and +147% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing CNN (+25% in total viewers and +36% in the demo) and FOX News (+16% in total viewers and +27% in the demo).
    • “Hardball with Chris Matthews” (7-8pm) beat CNN among total viewers for the second straight month and marked the fourth consecutive month averaging over one million viewers. “Hardball” was up +61% in total viewers and +99% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing CNN (+38% in total viewers and +42% in the demo) and FOX News (+12% in total viewers and +19% in the demo).
    • “All In With Chris Hayes” (8-9pm) beat CNN among total viewers and delivered the hour’s biggest total viewer and demo audiences since November 2012. September marked “All In’s” fourth consecutive month averaging over one million viewers. “All In” was up +73% in total viewers and +122% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing CNN (+34% in total viewers and +49% in the demo) and FOX News (+2% in total viewers and +1% in the demo).
    • “The Rachel Maddow Show” (9-10pm) beat CNN among both total viewers and the demo, marking the 40th straight total viewer win over CNN and fourth demo victory in the past five months. September also marked “Maddow’s” biggest total viewer and demo audiences since November 2008. “The Rachel Maddow Show” was up +80% in total viewers and +124% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing CNN (+74% in total viewers and +87% in the demo) and FOX News (+12% in total viewers and +7% in the demo).
    • “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” (10-11pm) beat CNN among total viewers for the 16th straight month. “The Last Word” was up +99% in total viewers and 122% in the demo vs. September 2015, outpacing CNN (+97% in total viewers and +101% in the demo) and FOX News (+42% in total viewers and +46% in the demo).
    • “The 11th Hour with Brian Williams” (11-11:30pm), which debuted on September 6, averaged 1.06 million viewers -- not only beating CNN’s 11pm hour but also drawing more total viewers CNN’s weekday primetime for the month of September. “The 11th Hour” is posting gains of +141% in total viewers and +129% in the demo vs. MSNBC’s 11pm half hour in September 2015. 

    # # #


    SEPTEMBER 1, 2016 -- “The 11th Hour with Brian Williams” debuts live at 11 p.m. ET Tuesday, September 6 on MSNBC. 


    During the final stretch of the campaign between Labor Day and the election, the weeknight program will provide a unique look at the major political stories of the day, the campaign news breaking at that hour, and the headlines that will lead the next morning.  Brian Williams anchors live from MSNBC Election Headquarters in New York’s Rockefeller Center.


    “This new assignment is a natural extension of the hundreds of hours of political coverage Brian has anchored through this campaign cycle so far,” said MSNBC President Phil Griffin.  “He and Rachel Maddow and the team have been great on the big nights, and now he’ll build on MSNBC’s primetime momentum by taking us live into the 11pm hour every night.”


    “We want a broadcast that will feel like a continuation of the conversation we've had all during this unprecedented campaign season,” said Williams.  “As the general election ramps up, there's an opportunity to assess and discuss the campaign at the end of each day.  With the help of the very best team in the business, we hope to offer some closure and sanity in addition to previewing where the campaigns are headed next.”


    In August 2016, MSNBC beat CNN across the board during weekday primetime (Mon-Fri 8-11 p.m.), and among total viewers at 11 p.m.  During primetime coverage of the 2016 Democratic National Convention in July, MSNBC consistently topped FOX News, ABC, and CBS across the board every night. For both conventions, more Americans turned to NBC News and MSNBC combined than any other broadcast or cable television network. 


    Patrick Burkey is executive producer of “The 11th Hour with Brian Williams.” 


    # # #


  • Mariana Atencio named MSNBC correspondent

    Below is an internal memo from Janelle Rodriguez, SVP Editorial, NBC News. 




    I’m pleased to announce that Mariana Atencio will join MSNBC as a correspondent beginning in September. She will split her first few months between New York and Los Angeles before settling down in Miami, where she will be based. 


    Mariana comes to us from Univision and Fusion Networks, where she has worked as an anchor and correspondent.  She co-anchored Univision's 2016 Democratic debate, as well as a Sunday public affairs show for the state of Florida. She has also covered a diverse range of national and international stories such as Latino voters in the 2016 election, the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, protests in Hong Kong, the search for 43 missing students in Mexico, the anniversary of the earthquake in Haiti, and Pope Francis’ election -- including a virtual town hall with the Pontiff ahead of his visit to the U.S. 


    Her investigative and documentary work has received numerous honors, including a Peabody Award, an IRE Award, and a Gracie Award. 


    Mariana, a native of Venezuela, graduated from the Universidad Católica Andrés Bello in Caracas and earned a master’s degree from Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism.


    Her distinctive experience and passion for journalism will be a terrific fit with MSNBC’s roster of enterprising reporters, and we can expect to see her contribute across the many broadcasts and platforms of NBC News and MSNBC.


    Please join me in welcoming Mariana to MSNBC. 








    CNN Prime Falls to Third Place in Both Total Viewers and the Demo as MSNBC Surges After Conventions


    “Morning Joe” Skyrockets to Deliver Best Month on Record and 18th Straight Win Over CNN’s “New Day”


    MSNBC Dayside Grows by Triple Digits Across the Board Year to Year


    AUGUST 30, 2016 -- MSNBC’s ratings are booming as the general election season heats up.  For the month of August 2016, MSNBC trounced CNN in mornings and primetime while also delivering massive growth and notable victories throughout key dayparts.  


    MSNBC surged past CNN in prime (M-F 8-11pm) in both total viewers (1.417 million vs. 972,000) and viewers A25-54 (320,000 vs. 312,000), marking the first across-the-board win over CNN in over two years (since June 2014).  Year to year, MSNBC prime grew +85% in total viewers and +113% in the demo vs. August 2015.  By comparison, CNN was up just 57% in total viewers and +63% in the demo, and FOX News was down -18% in total viewers and -33% in the demo.  


    Year to year, MSNBC prime grew +85% in total viewers and +113% in the demo vs. August 2015.  By comparison, CNN was up just 57% in total viewers and +63% in the demo, and FOX News was down -18% in total viewers and -33% in the demo.  


    CNN lagged behind MSNBC in total viewers every hour beginning at 7pm (“Hardball with Chris Matthews”), during each show in prime (“All In with Chris Hayes” at 8pm, “The Rachel Maddow Show” at 9pm, and “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” at 10pm), and through MSNBC’s extended live programming at 11pm. “Hardball” delivered its biggest total viewer audience since November 2008 and biggest demo audience since October 2013.


    “Morning Joe” (M-F 6-9am) posted its biggest demo audience since December 2012, beat CNN’s “New Day” among total viewers for the 18th straight month and, for the third month in a row, delivered the biggest total audience for the 6-9am time period in MSNBC’s 20 year history.  In this critical election year, “Morning Joe” posted significantly higher growth than its competition -- up +70% in total viewers and +88% in the demo vs. August 2015, ahead of CNN (+53% in total viewers and +64% in the demo) and FOX News (+24% in total viewers and +22% in the demo).


    MSNBC dayside (M-F 9am-5pm) posted triple-digit growth across the board compared to August 2015, again rising by dramatically higher rates than the competition.  Year to year, MSNBC was up +104% in total viewers and 160% in the demo, far above both CNN (+73% in total viewers and +76% in the demo) and FOX News (+10% in total viewers and +16% in the demo).


    MSNBC also outpaced the competition in total day (M-Su 6a-6a) growth, delivering gains of +77% in total viewers and +77% in the demo compared to August 2015 -- more than both CNN (+56% in total viewers and +57% in the demo) and FOX News (+5% in total viewers and flat in the demo).


    NOTE: All data is based on Nielsen L+SD.




    • “Morning Joe” (6-9am) ranked #2 in total viewers, topping CNN for the 18th straight month. Compared to August 2015, “Morning Joe” was up +70% in total viewers and +88% in the demo.  August marked “Morning Joe’s” best demo delivery since December 2012.
    • MSNBC Dayside (9am-5pm) was up +104% in total viewers and +160% in the demo vs. August 2015, outpacing both CNN (+73% in total viewers and +76% in the demo) and FOX News (+10% in total viewers and +16% in the demo).
    • “Andrea Mitchell Reports” (12-1pm) was up +109% in total viewers and +180% in the demo vs. August 2015, outpacing both CNN (+77% in total viewers and +80% in the demo) and FOX News (+16% in total viewers and +18% in the demo).
    • “MTP Daily with Chuck Todd” (5-6pm) was up +84% in total viewers and +225% in the demo vs. August 2015, outpacing both CNN (+79% in total viewers and +69% the demo) and FOX News (+8% in total viewers and +16% in the demo).
    • “With All Due Respect” (6-7pm) was up +59% in total viewers and +133% in the demo vs. August 2015, outpacing CNN (+70% in total viewers and +58% in the demo) and FOX News (+7% in total viewers and +15% in the demo).
    • “Hardball with Chris Matthews” (7-8pm) beat CNN among total viewers and delivered the biggest total viewer audience since November 2008 and biggest demo audience since October 2013. August marked “Hardball’s” third consecutive month averaging over one million viewers. “Hardball” was up +59% in total viewers and +77% in the demo vs. August 2015.
    • “All In With Chris Hayes” (8-9pm) beat CNN among total viewers and delivered the hour’s biggest total viewer and demo audiences since November 2012.  August marked “All In’s” third consecutive month averaging over one million viewers.  “All In” was up +74% in total viewers and +107% in the demo vs. August 2015.
    • “The Rachel Maddow Show” (9-10pm) beat CNN among both total viewers and the demo, marking the 39th straight total viewer win over CNN and third demo victory in the past four months. August also marked “Maddow’s” biggest total viewer and demo audiences since November 2012.  “The Rachel Maddow Show” was up +75% in total viewers and +113% in the demo vs. August 2015.
    • “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” (10-11pm) beat CNN among total viewers for the 15th straight month.  August marked the 10pm hour’s biggest total audience in MSNBC’s 20 year history and the biggest demo audience since November 2012.  “The Last Word” was up +112% in total viewers and 142% in the demo vs. Aug 2015.
    • MSNBC’s 11pm-12am hour, which included extended live programming, beat CNN among total viewers.  The 11pm hour was up +122% in total viewers and +138% in the demo vs. August 2015.


    # # #





    NEW YORK  August 8, 2016 – MSNBC has been recognized by the National Association of Black Journalists with a 2016 Salute to Excellence Award for its digital series, “Geography of Poverty.” This is the second consecutive year that MSNBC was honored in the “Online Project: Feature” category.

    The four-part “Geography of Poverty” series takes readers on a journey to forgotten parts of America through reports from MSNBC National Reporter and Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Trymaine Lee and photos by Matt Black. The series covered the Flint, MI water crisis in Aug. 2015.

    Geography of Poverty won a 2015 EPPY Award for Best Photography in 2015.

    Last year, Lee was honored with two 2015 Salute to Excellence Awards for his MSNBC reporting of the protests in Ferguson, MO.







    NEW YORK – August 2, 2016 – MSNBC today announced the appointment of Errol Cockfield to the position of Senior Vice President of MSNBC Communications.


    Cockfield will be responsible for setting the communications and media strategy for MSNBC and partnering with editorial and business leads at the network. Additionally, he will serve as lead spokesperson for MSNBC.He will be based in New York and report directly to Phil Griffin, President of MSNBC, and to Mark Kornblau, SVP of News Group Communications.


    Since 2012, Cockfield has served as a Senior Vice President at Edelman, a leading global communications and marketing firm, in their New York Corporate & Public Affairs division. As Senior Vice President, he offered his expertise to companies and clients on public affairs, crisis management, media relations and strategic positioning.


    Previously, Cockfield worked for the New York State Senate Democratic Conference as Chief of Staff and Director of Communications and External Relations. Prior to his role in the senate, he held the position of press secretary for New York Governors Eliot Spitzer and David Paterson. Cockfield also worked as a newspaper journalist including stints at Newsday, where he was the Statehouse Bureau Chief, the Hartford Courant and the Los Angeles Times.


    Cockfield received his Bachelor of Arts degree in English and Journalism from Stony Brook University in New York, NY. A native of Guyana, Cockfield lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Ziedah and their two children.




    About MSNBC

    MSNBC is the premier destination for breaking news and in-depth analysis of the headlines, as well as commentary and informed perspectives. Reaching more than 96 million households worldwide, MSNBC offers a full schedule of live news coverage, influential voices, and award-winning documentary programming – 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. MSNBC also delivers breaking news and information across a variety of platforms including www.msnbc.com and MSNBC on Sirius XM radio. The MSNBC App for iPhone, iPad and iTouch also provide a customizable user experience with live streaming, clips of select MSNBC programming, and additional show content. Watch MSNBC anywhere: On Demand, online or across mobile and connected TVs.  MSNBC is part of the NBCUniversal News Group, a division of NBCUniversal, one of the world’s leading media and entertainment companies, which is owned by Comcast Corporation. For more corporate information, visit www.nbcuniversal.com.


    Media Contact:

    Mark Kornblau

    Senior Vice President, Communications, NBCUniversal News Group



  • MORNING JOE NEWS: Joe Biden Says the "Democratic Party Overall Hasn¹t Spoken Enough" to White Working-Class Voters




    Vice President Joe Biden joined MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” today for a live, wide-ranging interview in Philadelphia.  He told co-hosts Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski and Willie Geist that the “Democratic Party overall hasn't spoken enough” to white working-class voters.


    On Donald Trump, Biden said: “I don't have anything personal against Donald Trump…

    But the truth is, Donald Trump knows nothing about foreign policy…  And nor should he, based upon his background.”


    Video and rush transcript of Biden’s interview on “Morning Joe” are below.  Mandatory credit: MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”


    Video: http://on.msnbc.com/2aelfL2


    Embed Code:

    <iframe src='http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_mj_biden1_160727' height='500' width='635' scrolling='no' border='no' ></iframe>




    BRZEZINSKI:  Joining us now, the vice -- the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden.




    JOE BIDEN:  Well.  It's amazing what happens when you announce you're not running for president.


    SCARBOROUGH:  There you go.  All right.


    AUDIENCE:  Joe!  Joe!  Joe!  Joe!




    SCARBOROUGH:  First of all, let me say to everybody, I'm very humbled.  Thank you so much.


    BRZEZINSKI:  He says thank you.  He says thank you, from the bottom of his heart.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Secondly, I've got to say, Mr. Vice President, we know you've never been in an Irish pub before.  We thank you.


    BRZEZINSKI:  Right.  This is what it's like.


    SCARBOROUGH:  We thank you for coming and making an exception for us here.


    JOE BIDEN:  All right (ph), Joe.


    BRZEZINSKI:  Welcome.


    SCARBOROUGH:  So -- so, welcome, and a great honor to have you here.  Let's talk about what's happening, first of all, in politics.


    I was talking to I Elijah Cummings a little bit earlier today.  It seems that from the time you were in the Senate, even the time that you were sworn in, that things have gone off the rail.  That Democrats are having a harder time talking to Republicans and vice versa.


    What's happening?  And -- and give us hope.  Give voters hope out there.


    BRZEZINSKI:  If it's possible.


    JOE BIDEN:  First of all, Joe, I think what you state is accurate.


    You know, that old bad joke, some of my best friends, well, you know, some of your -- when you were in Congress, some of your best friends were Democrats.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  And right now, you know, and for my last 40 years, I've always gotten on with Republicans.  And we talked to each other.


    Look, here's the best example I can give you.  Mike, you remember there used to be a private Senate dining room, there was a Senate dining room where a senator could bring a guest in the Capitol.  And then there was a little room with two big tables where senators, when they wanted to eat with one another, ate by themselves.


    And when I first got to the Senate, Joe Ted Kennedy -- I didn't want to be there at the time.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  But Ted -- Ted Kennedy says, "You got to come, and here's what -- you want to learn.  Come and sit at the table every -- from noon to 1:00, and just listen."  Because all the senators got together, and they talked and they swapped stories.


    SCARBOROUGH:  And by the way, Republicans and Democrats alike.  Didn't even think twice about it.


    JOE BIDEN:  Exactly, yes.  Yes.  No, no, no, no.  And -- and everybody was together.


    I went over, and I get up there a lot, and I decided I was going to go in and have lunch with a lot of my old buddies.  I walk in, there's no tables anymore.  They don't even have it any more.  There's lounge chairs in there.




    JOE BIDEN:  And it used to be that -- that we -- you know, when your gang came in, knew, you know, the big thing you all held up, and said, I have no passport, making sure you let everybody, know we don't travel.


    You know, we're home.  We don't go to those foreign countries.  Well, what happened was, we used to travel together.  And you'd -- and you'd go, like I was just down to Australia.  I would ordinarily -- you would go down as a senator with another Republican, and sometimes their spouse.


    And when you get to know somebody, and you know they've got a husband or wife that suffers from cancer, or a kid that has a drug problem, or whatever, it humanizes.


    BRZEZINSKI:  So true.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Another thing that happened.  Like in 1994, and I think it really did break when Newt came in.


    JOE BIDEN:  I'm not blaming Newt, but...


    SCARBOROUGH:  No, no, no, no.  But there was -- there was an immediate...




    BRZEZINSKI:  You can blame him.


    SCARBOROUGH:  No, no, no.  Listen, he -- there was a change in culture, which was, you know, Newt told everybody, don't stay up here.


    BRZEZINSKI:  Yeah.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Vote for three days, go rush home, work the district, work the -- work your offices in the district.


    And so, suddenly the kids weren't going to school with each other.  The spouses weren't -- weren't spending time together.  A lot of people weren't going out golfing, doing whatever they did.  It's a lot harder to call somebody a Nazi or a Marxist if your kids are in the same class together.


    JOE BIDEN:  Exactly right.  By the way, that's -- that's absolutely correct.


    And so, what happens now is, most of those guys and women, they don't know one another.  They can't -- I could tell you a lot about the families of the men -- look, now, Strom Thurman asked me to do -- on his death bed, asked me to do his eulogy.


    I did Strom Thurman's eulogy.




    JOE BIDEN:  And I ran in the Senate against everything Strom Thurman stood for.  Jesse Helms, before I went -- went to his funeral.  His wife, Dot, who just passed away, came out in this big Baptist church, we were there.  And I -- only two Democrats, me and Chris Dodd.


    She walked out, two daughters and his son he adopted, who was -- who was handicapped (ph), he was, in braces.  And walked out and said, "We voted for you, Joe.  We put your sign on our lawn."




    JOE BIDEN:  I mean, it was -- and I -- I got more, not less progressive.


    But you get to know somebody.  And you listen to the other team.  You listen to the other side.  And -- and but that -- there's not much listening going on.


    BRZEZINSKI:  So, I'd like to ask you about the presidential race.  You're one of the few...


    JOE BIDEN:  Oh there is one?




    BRZEZINSKI:  Yeah.  A little something going on here.  You're one of the few foreign policy minds that my father has deep respect for.  


    JOE BIDEN:  It's a high compliment.


    BRZEZINSKI:  And I'd like -- I'd like to ask you...




    BRZEZINSKI:  What -- and I -- I...


    SCARBOROUGH:  Other -- other than Willie and myself.


    BRZEZINSKI:  Well, Willie, yeah.


    SCARBOROUGH:  There's Willie, myself and you (inaudible).


    BRZEZINSKI:  I -- I mean this -- I really want to know.  Is there anything that Donald Trump has said -- is there any context to his foreign policy comments that he has made throughout this election so far?


    JOE BIDEN:  Look, I don't have anything personal against Donald Trump.


    BRZEZINSKI:  No, I'm not asking...


    JOE BIDEN:  No, no.  I want to put it in context.  And so -- but the truth is, Donald Trump knows nothing about foreign policy.  And -- and nor should he, based upon his background.




    But the thing that bothers me, Willie (ph), is I don't see any attempt for him to go out and get people who really know on the Republican side to be aware of what is really -- the whole -- this whole thing about NATO.


    Now, you know, everybody's making a big thing, and saying he's a friend of Putin's.  I don't buy that.  But here's what he's doing.  He's playing directly into the hands of a guy who says -- and your father would tell you -- his overarching goal with Putin is to break up NATO and to fracture Europe, makes him stronger.


    So here you've got someone coming along and saying, you know, unless Latvia pays their bills -- first of all, they're paying their bill.  But unless Latvia pays the bill, I'm not sure we're going to honor Article 5 of a treaty that is the single, most significant treaty in the history of mankind, lasted over 60 years, is absolutely central to our security.


    Now, I don't think he'd be -- I don't think if he knew it, I don't think he -- maybe it's not fair.  I don't think he knows what Article 5 is, and nor does -- should anybody here know what Article 5 is.


    But if you're going to be president of the United States of America, it says...


    SCARBOROUGH:  You better know.


    JOE BIDEN:  Hey, you better know.  So I just think it's -- and some of the things he says, like for example, I know he's trying to be tough but he's going to go out and carpet bomb.


    You want to make friends and influence people in the Middle East?  So you're going to go carpet bomb innocent people and bad people at the same time, and that's going to help us fight against ISIS and Daesh?


    I mean, the things he says are -- are -- are -- make absolutely no sense.  But I think it is he's into -- well, I shouldn't guess his motive.  But I -- it's just -- it worries me.  And I promise you, Mike, every place I go -- I've now traveled over 1,200,000 miles.  I've met every world leader in the last 35 years.


    I don't think there's a single world leader I haven't met and got -- I mean, ended up close to a first name basis with them.  OK?  Every place I go, whether I'm reaching across the table and trying to solve a problem with Xi in -- the president of China, or I'm down in New Zealand with the prime minister.


    And they go, tell me, this Trump's not going to -- I mean, that -- that can't happen, can it?




    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  I'm not joking.  Anyway.


    BRZEZINSKI:  Willie Geist.


    GEIST:  Part of the argument, Mr. Vice President, that the Trump campaign makes is that we now have a world spinning out of control.  You heard it at their convention last week.


    And Americans wake up and they see it on their TVs, whether it's in Munich the other day, whether it's in France with a priest yesterday, or Nice the week before that, or Brussels or in Orlando.


    Does he have a point that because of some of the policies of the last eight years, Syria could've gone better, Libya could've gone better, Iraq could've gone better, not providing these safe havens for ISIS to grow and spread up into Europe?


    JOE BIDEN:  Well, the answer is no, Willie.  And let me explain what I mean by that.


    You know -- you remember when the Arab Spring hit, everybody was talking about, you know, what are we going to do, the Arab Spring, as if it was one -- one coherent, you know, rising up against authoritarian regimes.


    And I kid the president, I said you know, his daughter and my daughter are best -- -- my -- my granddaughter are best friends.  I mean the same little grade together, and they grew up (ph).  And I said you know, when our kids are in some graduate school and graduate program, the question is, what'd they do about the Arab Spring?


    The first is (inaudible) the book, it said what made them think they could do anything about the Arab Spring?  There's major movements that occur in history where the shifts of power occur, having nothing to do with who's the leader at the moment.


    And what happened is you saw the breakdown of a whole range of states, particularly in the Middle East, which is -- which is inevitable, going to happen...


    SCARBOROUGH:  But shouldn't we have gotten involved in Syria earlier?


    JOE BIDEN:  The -- the -- the answer is, and do what involved in Syria earlier?  The question is whether or not we should have made a judgment as to drawing a red line with Assad or not, and how that was going to work.


    But -- think about it, Joe.  Every Republican you had on talked about how we should do more in Syria.  How do they always start off?  No ground troops.  We're not going to commit any ground troops.


    Name me one Republican who's said, let's put ground troops in Syria.  Name me one.  Number two, OK, no ground troops.  Now, what are you going to do?


    OK, you're going to go out and find the opposition, because we're always -- we're looking for the Thomas Jefferson hiding behind the sand dune.  There's somebody...


    SCARBOROUGH:  But what -- what Republicans say, though...




    We actually do have ground troops right now.


    JOE BIDEN:  No.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Over there fighting against ISIS?


    JOE BIDEN:  No, what we have is we have special operations forces.


    SCARBOROUGH:  But they're -- they're ground troops.  We've got boots on the ground.


    JOE BIDEN:  No -- yeah, no.  Well, let put it this way.  We have boots on the ground, but we have boots on the ground not leading, but training the folks we've trained to be more effective and provide air cover for them as they move.


    But everybody knew what we meant by ground troops.  The lesson we learned from Iraq is you put 160,000 troops in the middle of a country that in fact has -- we -- you don't understand at all, you're in the middle of a civil war and you're going somehow solve that.


    There's not a single Republican out there I know that says, you know, we should put in another 20,000, 30,000 troops.  What we are doing, Joe, and we're -- its working, we're taking back -- we take back 50 percent of the caliphate fight so far.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  And the movement against these guys is real.  There -- you know, think about where we were two years ago on this program.  We were legitimately saying, "God, they've established the caliphate."


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  Unlike -- unlike Al Qaida, these guys are actually establishing an area they're going to control.  And they're going to move from Raqqa, all the way down through Baghdad and Mecca and Medina.  And they're going to have this -- this country in effect, they're are going  to control (ph) a new caliphate.


    SCARBOROUGH:  So what do you say to critics who is say you go back six years, you go to 2010, where there actually was stability in Iraq, by -- certainly much more than there was a few years before?


    What do you say to critics who say, when we all left, when everybody --- when everybody, all the American troops left, we created a void that allowed ISIS to grow and create that caliphate?


    JOE BIDEN:  I was either in the country -- I've been in, I think 26 times, well over 20 times into Iraq.  And during this period as vice president and the year my son was there, I was there a lot.


    I guess I've been in eight, 10, 12 times.  


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  I know the names of the grandchildren of the leaders, not a joke.




    SCARBOROUGH:  You don't have to name them all right here.




    JOE BIDEN:  No, no, but here's the...


    SCARBOROUGH:  I get your point.


    JOE BIDEN:  But here's the point.  There wasn't one single, solitary leader, including the Barzani and the Kurds, who would vote in the core of their parliament to allow the Status of Forces Agreement, meaning that...


    SCARBOROUGH:  Not one?


    JOE BIDEN:  Not one, not one -- they all would tell me they would and I'd say go vote, go vote.  Not one, because they were worried what would happen is it would be used against them politically, supporting the occupier.




    JOE BIDEN:  And by the way, I plead to keep 10,000 troops there.


    SCARBOROUGH:  I wonder, Mr. Vice President, if we're going to end up at a place you were in 2000 -- early 2003, when you said there's not one Iraq, there are three Iraqs.


    Let's just stop with the fiction and give the Sunnis their country, give the Shia their country and give the Kurds their country.


    JOE BIDEN:  Precisely what I said was, their constitution calls for a federal system.  And I said that the Kurds should have their own -- their own police force, like California has the highway patrol.  The Sunnis should have theirs and so should the Shia.


    Because the idea you're ever going to have a Sunni force in Shia territory is bizarre, number one.  


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  Number two, I said the central government should be weak, control the borders and allow local control of each of these areas.


    So the way their constitution is written is you're able to go to the core and move to have semi-autonomy.  It's a federal system.  But now what's happened is, and from the very beginning and  the last administration insisted, as well, there be a central government that controlled everything.


    It's not possible.  It will not happen in your lifetime or mine.  And the way to bring stability is to make it clear to each of the major regions of Iraq that you can control your local schools, like you can in the United States.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  You control your local police force.


    That's why I proposed...




    JOE BIDEN:  ... Guard, the New Jersey National Guard to give people confidence they're not going to be victimized again...


    SCARBOROUGH:  So, Sunnis -- so, Sunnis aren't dependent completely on what happens from a Shia-controlled Baghdad government.




    BARNICLE:  You know, Mr. Vice President, I'm looking at you, I obviously see the vice president of the United States.  But I also...


    SCARBOROUGH:  You're very good at that stuff.




    JOE BIDEN:  I'm on my game.


    SCARBOROUGH:  He got an A in civics.




    BARNICLE:  But I also see a little kid from Scranton, Pennsylvania.




    BARNICLE:  And -- you know, who wore his little league uniform to bed the night before he played his first Little League game.


    JOE BIDEN:  That's exactly right.




    BRZEZINSKI:  That's very cute.


    BARNICLE:  I see someone who is now in the middle of a campaign, where one side is fuelled by fear -- fear of the future, fear of the other.  I see a guy who has overcome trauma, tragedy, come back with great resilience.


    What do you think about the message from Republicans, "Let's Make America Great Again," as if America needs to make great?  


    JOE BIDEN:  Well -- well, look.  The neighborhoods I grew up in, like this neighborhood in Claymont and Wilmington, the neighborhoods most of us grew up in, you know...




    People are pretty tough.  People are -- my dad used to say, I don't expect the government to solve my problems.  I expect them to understand my problems, just understand my problems.  


    And I really, really, honest to God believe -- and I know you do, too, give ordinary Americans just an even chance.  They can do extraordinary things.  And that's not hyperbole.  They can do extraordinary things.


    And what has happened is there used to be a basic bargain here.  And the bargain used to be, if I participated in the success of the venture I worked in, I got to -- I got to participate in -- in the profit.  


    That whole bargain has been broken.  The whole corporate culture has changed.  


    I sat in my house, at the invitation -- I got asked by some of the leaders of the Fortune 20 companies, and including a guy you know, Fink Blackrock.  They've come to my house, sitting with me.  They want to talk about how the corporate culture has gone haywire, and there has to -- I -- I have a cartoon, Joe, in my office.  It's a picture of a guy from the New Yorker, big rotund guy in a turtle-neck sweater, a black mask, and a black beret and big bag of money on the table.  


    He's being interrogated.  And he looks over and he says, "How was I supposed to know he was a job creator?"




    Well, my dad was a job creator, because he sold General Motors cars.  He sold the damn cars.  He created as many jobs as any investor in that company created.  The people I grew up with busted their ass, busted their (inaudible).  




    And they looked, and they say, hey, wait a minute, where am I in this deal?  What's happening?  What's happening here?  


    BARNICLE:  And where are those jobs going?  


    JOE BIDEN:  Those jobs -- the jobs are still there.  They're just not getting paid for those jobs.  


    Look, we've created more jobs than every other industrialized country combined -- combined, since we came into office.  But what's happening now?  


    What's happening now is you go in and -- look, the Chamber of Commerce are not bad guys, but your team declared war on labor about 12 years...


    SCARBOROUGH:  My team -- my -- here's -- here's my team.  


    JOE BIDEN:  No, no, long (ph), long.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Well, it was -- it was -- it was my team.


    JOE BIDEN:  I keep thinking you're a Republican.  




    SCARBOROUGH:  Well, you know, I am a Republican.  I -- I am a Republican.  


    JOE BIDEN:  Oh, look.


    SCARBOROUGH:  I'll be -- I'll be glad to tell you, and this is certainly a good time, I didn't declare war on anybody.  


    BRZEZINSKI:  We'll have a whole segment on his (inaudible).


    SCARBOROUGH:  I didn't -- I didn't declare war on anybody.


    JOE BIDEN:  No, I know -- I know you didn't.  


    SCARBOROUGH:  But when you talk about the Chamber of Commerce...


    JOE BIDEN:  The Chamber -- look, here's the deal.


    SCARBOROUGH:  The Chamber of Commerce is actually split right now from a lot of Republicans.  


    JOE BIDEN:  Well, it is now.  It is now.  But think of the last ten or 12 years.  


    The idea was organized labor was per se bad.  Look, here's -- here's the thing -- I see Willie's looking like, where the hell is this guy going to say?  


    GEIST:  No, no, I...




    JOE BIDEN:  But look, big -- big deal, like Barack and I did something that violated the Constitution.  


    We said, guess what, when companies take an hourly worker and say, you're now management, so I don't have to pay over time -- what the hell is going on, guys?  Come on.  


    And so, we said, no, no, no.  You've got to show he is actually -- he or she is doing some related management.  Oh my god, this is an attack on business.  


    Come on.  Democrats and Republicans from the '50s and '60s and '70s and '80s and '90s, we agreed on certain basic, basic things about the way in which labor and business work together.  And -- and -- and it's not all -- labor's not been all right, by any stretch of the imagination.  


    But the things we argue about now, we argue about whether or not an hourly worker should be paid overtime?  


    BRZEZINSKI:  Yeah.  Come on.


    JOE BIDEN:  Come on, man.  You sound crazy.  


    SCARBOROUGH:  So -- so -- so, before we go to break, and I know we have to go to break, you -- you're touching on these issues, which ironically the guy that Mike was talking about and we all are asking about, Donald Trump, you're talking about a guy right now who's connecting with those workers in Scranton, Pennsylvania.


    BRZEZINSKI:  And pitching (inaudible) an hour.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Who's connecting with those people in Youngstown, Ohio.


    JOE BIDEN:  You're absolutely right.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Who's connecting with those white working-class voters in a way that you have your entire career.  And in a way that Hillary Clinton is not.


    You can just look at the numbers right now.  Why is that?


    JOE BIDEN:  That's why I'm going to be living in (ph) Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan.  




    SCARBOROUGH:  Over the next six months.  Now, why is that?  


    JOE BIDEN:  I -- I -- I think it's two reasons.  


    One, I think the Democratic Party overall hasn't spoken enough to those voters.  They've done the right thing for the voter.  Haven't spoken to them.  We don't walk in -- like for example, Joe, you and I talked about this.  If there's a cop in America that doesn't support me, I don't know where it is.  


    SCARBOROUGH:  Don't know -- yes.


    JOE BIDEN:  Now, I'm not -- I'm being -- I'm not being facetious.  These are guys I grew up with.  




    JOE BIDEN:  But I also have overwhelming support from the African-American community.  Everybody says how -- how can that be?  There's nothing special about me.  I talk to those cops.  I keep in contact with them.  


    SCARBOROUGH:  Have Democrats stopped talking to...


    JOE BIDEN:  I think...


    SCARBOROUGH:  ... white working class voters?  


    JOE BIDEN:  I think we have in -- in part, and the reason is we've been consumed with crisis after crisis after crisis.  And so I go in my old neighborhood and they go, "Joe, hey.  Joe, over here, you know, what about me?"  And I say, well look, all these things that are happening -- look, you know, what are the things that affect middle class families?  


    Let me define by middle class, being able to own your own house, not have to rent it, being able to send your kid to a park, they can come home safe, being able to take care of your geriatric parent after the one other dies, being able to send your kid to a local school to go well to get to college and to (inaudible) get them there if they get in.  That -- that's -- that's not asking too much.  


    And so I said, look -- look what we're doing with college assistance and Pell grants.  And -- but -- we do -- we have the right policies but I don't we spend enough time saying -- I know we're running out of time.  Here, let me say it this way.  I had a Senate staff and it was pretty consistent.  I mean, they knew me well and they knew my (inaudible).  Got to be vice president, new people, new staff.  


    And anybody who would begin to say you're going to speak to such and such, here's an outline.  And I said just every speech you write, just understand one thing, in the very beginning make sure they know that I know what they're concerned about, that I know what their problem is.  Whether I agree with them or not, the solution (ph), let them know I know what's worrying them and why it's not illegitimate they're worried and then give an answer.


    We instead go in and sort of the -- in the old days, the limousine liberals, we -- we'd want to say (ph)...


    SCARBOROUGH:  Mike's (ph) still a limousine liberal.


    BRZEZINSKI:  We understand.


    SCARBOROUGH:  But go ahead.


    JOE BIDEN:  Yeah, right.




    You know -- no, it's like I got the answer for you.  


    BRZEZINSKI:  Yeah.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  I got the answer for you.  The -- I think there has been in both parties not enough -- this is going to sound strange -- enough respect shown...


    SCARBOROUGH:  Oh, absolutely.  


    JOE BIDEN:  ... to ordinary people busting their necks.  




    SCARBOROUGH:  Stay right there (inaudible) with the vice president.  We've got a lot more.  


    BRZEZINSKI:  More of the vice president after a quick break right here on "Morning Joe" live in Philadelphia.  








    BRZEZINSKI:  That is Vice President Joe Biden and his TV counterpart doing what they do best, but you know what?


    SCARBOROUGH:  So -- so -- Val...


    BIDEN:  You should be sitting here.


    SCARBOROUGH:  You say it's very tough actually raising an older brother.




    You know -- you know what we say in our house, big kids big problems?  It just keeps getting harder, doesn't it?




    OWENS:  But you know, it's worth it.  Yes he's turned out well.




    OWENS:  Yeah, he's turned out well.




    SCARBOROUGH:  You've got a brother here too, don't you?  We're going to get him up here, too.  So now (inaudible).


    BRZEZINSKI:  Come on (inaudible).




    SCARBOROUGH:  Come on up real quickly.  Come on up.




    SCARBOROUGH:  So brother Jimmy, this is how much -- this is how much the Bidens love each other.  When Joe became vice president, actually the Secret Service said he looks a lot like you.  Can we get him to drive in the front car?




    BIDEN:  By the way, that's not a joke.  They did say it...


    SCARBOROUGH:  And you (inaudible)?


    JIMMY BIDEN:  Hell yeah, man.




    BRZEZINSKI:  That's...


    SCARBOROUGH:  Everybody has a role.




    OWENS:  More (inaudible).


    BRZEZINSKI:  Love it.  More with Vice President Biden and we'll bring in the (inaudible)...


    SCARBOROUGH:  Great to see you hear.  Thank you.


    BRZEZINSKI:  ... wrote the book on the V.P.  We'll look at the legacy of the second highest office in the United States.  The conversation continues in three minutes right here on "Morning Joe."








    SCARBOROUGH:  "Morning Joe" live from Philadelphia.  Still with us onset, Vice President Joe Biden.  


    And also (ph) joining us, professor of law at Saint Louis University, a leading authority on the vice presidency, Joel Goldstein.  His latest book is the "White House Vice Presidency:  The Path to Significance, Mondale to Biden."


    Welcome, Joel.  Good to see you.


    GOLDSTEIN:  Thanks for having me.


    SCARBOROUGH:  Mr. Vice President, let me ask you a question.  Tonight, you'll be making the lead speech on a Wednesday night at the Democratic National Convention.  You made a decision several months ago that everybody understood, for personal reasons, not to get into this race to be president of the United States.  Is there a part of you as you sit here this morning that wishes you were making the speech tomorrow night?  


    JOE BIDEN:  No, really, because as a matter of fact, Jill and I were talking about it last night.  It was really just the right decision, I mean, for my family.  And I -- I plan on staying involved.  I'm not going away.  




    That's different than would I like to make some of those decisions.  Do I think I -- look, you know, I got in trouble with Jill for saying, you know, anybody who runs for president, if they don't believe they're the most qualified person in the country to do it, they shouldn't run.  And I -- so there's things that I wish I could manage these next four years.  But -- but it was -- I don't -- I don't have many regrets and that's not one of them.  


    (UNKNOWN):  Is there any part of you, though, that thinks you'd be doing better against Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton is doing?  


    SCARBOROUGH:  Come on.  Of course (inaudible).




    BRZEZINSKI:  Come on.  That's a bad...


    JOE BIDEN:  No, no.  Look.  Look.


    SCARBOROUGH:  You ask a guy that question...


    BRZEZINSKI:  In a pub...


    SCARBOROUGH:  ... he's going to say -- in a pub and he's going to go, no, of course.




    JOE BIDEN:  No, no, no, no.  Look, I --I have not -- I learned one thing.  


    BRZEZINSKI:  We'll get here there.


    JOE BIDEN:  The way to become really popular is announce you're not running for president.  






    BRZEZINSKI:  Amazing.  


    JOE BIDEN:  It's amazing what it does for you.  


    (UNKNOWN):  So the vice presidencies of Richard Cheney and Joseph Biden, the significant differences, it would seem to me and (ph) to a lot of people, would be the Cheney's vice presidency was intent from September 12, 2001 to creating his own intelligence unit within the vice president's office, going after Saddam Hussein almost immediately after September 11 and he played a significant role in the Bush presidency.  


    Tell me about the differences that you've seen, perceived, written about between the vice presidencies of Joe Biden and Dick Cheney.


    GOLDSTEIN:  I think they were both powerful, as you suggest.  I mean, during the Cheney period, people were talking about an imperial vice presidency and -- and the joke that President Bush was a heartbeat away from the presidency.


    When -- when Vice President Biden gave his acceptance speech at the 2008 convention, he said that, "If I become vice president, the most frightening words in the English language will no longer be the vice president's office is on the phone."


    I think that -- that vice president...




    Vice President Cheney's influence really dissipated.  It decreased over time.  Vice President Biden had to make up really for some of the pushback against the office.


    I think he was able to establish a close relationship with the president and over -- over the eight years has sustained that where he's really done remarkable things, both in terms of his advising role and the assignments that he's taken on.


    BARNICLE:  When you have had disagreements with the president, and I know you've had disagreement with him, how long did those disagreements last, become personal -- do they become personal?


    JOE BIDEN:  They haven't become personal because the thing I love about my guy is that we made a deal for real in the beginning.  Whatever we had on our chest, we would get it off our chest.  And we hollered (ph) each other, we had private lunches together, we disagree.  


    But the advantage I've had -- and I used to say this -- I debated him and everyone else 13 times in that race trying to get the nomination.  And if you go back and look, he and I never disagreed on a major substantive issue.  We disagreed on tactic (ph).  So I knew I was in a comfort zone where he and I were on the same page on all of the major issues.


    And so -- but no, it's never lasted and I -- you know, the president is no drama Obama, I remember him saying about two years in.  And he said you know, we've become really good friends I never expected that.  And I looked at him and I said I didn't either.




    BRZEZINSKI:  That's nice.


    JOE BIDEN:  But all kidding aside, it's a -- there's a genuine trust.  I trust him, he has character, I've never once worried that he was going to play a game with me.


    And I know he trusts me and I don't know, Joel, you know more about it than I do in terms of -- no, I mean in terms of history.  But it seems to me the most -- the most significant thing that has to occur is you have to be simpatico ideologically with the president and you have to understand there's a V in front of your name, you're the vice president.  


    BRZEZINSKI:  Right.


    JOE BIDEN:  And the deal I made with the president was, if we ever had a fundamental disagreement on principle, I develop prostate cancer.  I...




    By the way, you know me, I wouldn't -- you know, if I had a fundamental disagreement, I'd find some excuse to why I couldn't do the job.  But we never, never have.  Yet we argue like hell, we -- not -- I mean, we're not shouting at each other all the time.  But it's a -- we're very blunt with each other.


    GEIST:  Well, we've got about six months left here before you guys leave office, Mr. Vice President.  So you're thinking about legacy, and one of those things has been the cancer moon shot.


    Talk to people at home, there's no family in this country that's not been affected by cancer in one way or another.  You, very directly, obviously give people hope about cancer.


    How far away are we?  Is there something on the horizon we can look to and say maybe we can beat this thing?


    JOE BIDEN:  The answer is yes, there's a number of things in the horizon and some -- look, we're at an inflection point.  I didn't realize -- you know, when you have someone you love in trouble, you try to learn all there is about the problem they have.


    And what I learned through Beau was that it wasn't until the last five years that immunologists started working with biologists (ph), working with chemical engineers, working with -- there was -- there was none of this collaboration taking place or very little of it.  Now, they're all working together, number one.  


    Number two, the biggest thing I think they'll probably acknowledge to you (ph) is that you've got to breakdown these stove pipes.  There's a tendency to hoard information, to not share information, to -- and I was just saying to Joe, if you're a astrophysicist and we give you a grant to study the stars, whatever you publish you've got to make it universally available immediately.


    We do the same thing with grants for research and cancer research.  It goes behind a wall for a year, it only can come out through certain publications.  It's hoarded information.  And it's part of a culture that has to change.  


    And -- but there's so many things.  For example, last thing.  Pretty soon, you're going to be able to -- your kids are going to be able to get a vaccine like you can for cervical cancer now.  You can get a vaccine, like when you go get, you know, a shot for the measles early on, preventing cancer.  They're learning now what's -- what is hereditary.  They can tell -- they're going to do blood biopsies.  You can find markers in your blood because some of these cancers take 10, 20 years to develop.


    They're close to being able to say you got the marker for this or that or the other thing and we can take palliative action to make sure that this isn't going to develop.  There's a lot of things, a lot of things on the horizon and I'm excited about it.  And I think you're seeing the community come around and begin to be much more collegial in this effort.


    BRZEZINSKI:  A leader on this, and thank you for taking the time to talk to the children and my best friend Tia who's here.  She's fighting pancreatic, fighting hard and...


    JOE BIDEN:  Tia, keep the faith, kid, keep the faith.


    BRZEZINSKI:  There you go, Vice President Joe Biden












    JULY 11, 2016 -- Below is a RUSH transcript of MSNBC’s exclusive one-on-one conversation between former Florida Governor Jeb Bush and Republican strategist Nicolle Wallace. 


    In his first public comments since Donald Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, the former GOP presidential hopeful opens up about why he thinks “conservatism is temporarily dead,” how the “environment of reality TV” contributed to Trump’s rise, why he won’t vote for either Trump or Clinton in November, what he hopes to see in a VP pick, and how he and his family plan to watch the convention.  


    The candid discussion airs Monday at 10 p.m. ET on MSNBC as part of a special hour anchored by Rachel Maddow and Brian Williams. 


    Wallace is an MSNBC political analyst, former senior adviser in the McCain-Palin 2008 campaign, former communications director in the George W. Bush White House, and former press secretary to then-Governor Jeb Bush. 


    # # #


    Excerpts of the interview may be used subject to the following restrictions:

    • Mandatory credit to MSNBC on first reference.
    • The onscreen “MSNBC EXCLUSIVE” credit must be clearly visible and unobstructed at all times in any image, video clip, or other form of media.
    • Embedded web video must stream from the NBCNews.com or MSNBC.com media player with the unobstructed credit as described above.


    # # #


    - - - PART 1 - - - 



    I'm disappointed I didn't break through. This would have been an extraordinary time to serve as President. The country is desperately looking for leadership and I think it requires someone who is not always trying to win but to solve problems. And um, the way it turned out it didn't work out for me. So I wish I was in the game still for sure. 



    Exactly a year ago this week, you were taking incoming from Hillary Clinton who was sure you were going to be the nominee and from Donald Trump who was behind you in the polls but gaining ground and I wonder if you went back. … The strategic assumption that you made, that Rubio made, that establishment Republicans made was to win that lane first and then take on the outsider bracket which I guess you could put Carson, and Trump, and Fiorina in, was that assumption wrong?



    Well in retrospect it's always easier to be brilliant about this. At the time I'm not sure it was wrong. I had to be who I am. I can't change. I'm not going to be going to a town hall meeting and spewing venom. It's not who I am. It's not why I wanted to run. If I had to be something different than I was, I wouldn't have run.





    I'm not sure that in the environment we were in in 2016 -- partially created by this larger than life character, partially created by the media's coverage of him, that blocked out the sun effectively for anybody else. I spent most of my time doing press interviews commenting on what Donald Trump said. And if you--



    About you. I mean, y-- you were his--



    Oh, yeah. Like, my favorite was -- I was in a townhall meeting and Trump was in one of his rallies in New Hampshire and he called me something I can't repeat. And Dana Bash from CNN was sent, summoned to my townhall meeting and said well you heard what Donald Trump called you and it's part of your anatomy which you used to not be able to mentioned. It ends in hole,



    Thank you for that.



    So I'm like, and I knew what he said. And so I said, Dana I can't answer that until you tell me what he said. And she said well I can't say it. I said I can't answer it.


    ‘I can't say it.’ ‘I can't answer it.’ We went back and forth and finally she said ‘Alright, alright. He called you a ----’ and I walked away laughing. I mean, is that the way we're going to elect presidents? 





    So there was a moment - I've worked on winning campaigns and losing campaigns and there's always a moment where you sort of know. …  I think the South Carolina debate was the most extraordinary moment and I realized how much the party had changed when Donald Trump stood there and essentially blamed your brother for 9/11.



    To the left of Michael Moore.



    Right. So what were those final days like? And what --



    I laugh only because it's like wow. That's a sea change where there wa uh, - look - everyone else piled on against him. 



    But he won. He won South Carolina.



    He did win. And-- he won going away. And-- I was focused on back to the, you know, to the conversation about being—kind of going through the-- getting to the point where the field narrowed. And we had a chance in South Carolina. And that went away for a variety of reasons with--



    You were in a three-way tie for second place.



    Yeah. Marco and-- and--








    And what happened?



    Well-- Nikki Haley was a popular-- governor in South Carolina, endorsed Marco. That-- that clearly hurt. The pope intervening in American politics didn't help.



    You're a Catholic blaming the pope.



    No, no, I'm not blaming-- (LAUGHTER) I mean, t-- been talking about basically open borders at a time when the whole Trump phenomena was to build a wall and let-- make Mexico pay for it where he goes-- literally goes to the border for a massive mass. And he had every right to preach the gospel there. But I don't think he should be intervening. I don't know if he understood that he was intervening in-- in our political affairs. That-- that generated a lot of news and kind of stopped the momentum, so.



    But-- by-- how, it sort of froze the--



    No, the-- the news cycle was dominated by that. And Trump, you know, to his credit was very smart at exploiting these kind of opportunities. He's a master at understanding how the media works. More than anybody I've ever seen in politics. And kudos for him for kind of creating the environment and then manipulating the environment to this effect.


    The tragedy of this though is that there isn't going to be a wall built. And Mexico's not going to pay for it. And there's not going to be a ban on Muslims. None of that, this was all, like, a alternative universe that he created. The reality is that's not going to happen and people are going to be deeply frustrated and the divides will grow in our country. And this extraordinary country, still the greatest country on the face of the earth, will continue to stagger instead of soar. And that's the heartbreaking part of this is I think people are going to really feel betrayed.





    Conservatism is temporarily dead. I mean, if you look at it, we have two candidates. Donald Trump is barely a Republican. He's certainly not a conservative.



    And you tried to make that case. You put up an ad about how he's been--



    Yeah, like--





    --why don't you think, the ad talked about his record on abortion which you think is abysmal. He doesn't even speak the language of a culture of life. His record on guns. He's been--








    --pretty hostile toward second amendment rights. And nobody cared. Why-- why, I mean, I agree with you that conservatism--





    But they care beyond the here and now, this presidential race. I mean, the-- the conservative cause isn't just about the, you know, a presidential race. It's about core beliefs that, if implemented properly will lead people to a better life. And so I think outside of the hot presidential campaign, this message still resonates and it's still important. It certainly resonates around the country.





    The same people that voted for you twice, picked Trump. I mean, he won Florida in overwhelming--





    He did.



    Did we -- I mean, it can't all be on Trump. Our voters wanted something else. Did we stop talking to them? Did we stop understanding them?





    They're-- the difference is-- no, I don't think so. I think the difference is people don't believe anything anybody says anymore.



    Including you?





    In politics.



    They didn't believe--



    Well, I didn't, I mean, I don't know if they even heard what I said. That's the point. They-- they-- they didn't-- they wanted their voice heard. They still do. They're angry for legitimate reasons. They latched onto the big horse. All of which is logical to me in retrospect. In the midst of it, it wasn't very logical. I mean--





    In the midst of it were you like, "How does this hap--" I mean, what was--



    Well, it was, I mean, you talk to people and no one-- no wise person came to me in advance of what happened and said, "This is what's going to happen." Not a single person I know. Not a single person.



    Nobody thought it was going to happen.



    No. And probably Donald Trump at the beginning didn't either. So, you know, kudos for the guy for his, you know, I think he just-- he plays by his gut. He sensed an opening -- this deep disaffection --  and he played it like a Stradivarius violin.





    I wonder if you replay Trump's insult against Mexicans, calling them rapists and murderers and-- and-- in the context of your wife, do you ever think of, "If I just slugged in the jaw in that first debate. And maybe I would've gone down. But maybe I would've done my party and my country a service by taking out the school yard bully." I have a four-year-old, I live in fear of--  he cyber bullied you--





    Yeah, I don't care about that. That's totally irrelevant.



    But you've got kids. I mean, what he did in the context of the candidate would get any kid kicked out of any school in America.



    Well, it's not-- it wasn't me that-- it didn't bother me a bit. It was disparaging Hispanics, women, POWs … I found it deeply troubling. And I think if you check the record -- if someone actually takes the time, I doubt they will-- if you look at the campaign I spent most time pushing back on all that nonsense.



    I know it was you. 



    By far and away. Everybody else was in the witness protection program for a while.



    I mean, so how did we get here? We now are in--





    This is the environment of reality TV. It's a cultural--



    It's the Kardashians fault?.



    No. It's us. It's not the Kardashians. The Kardashians wouldn't exist if we didn't enjoy watching them, right?





    I just wonder what this loss felt like in contrast to your father's, very noble--





    Yeah, well, he was-- yeah, and he was a president losing reelection after accomplishing things that under normal circumstances would've probably allowed him to be re-elected. In my case-- I'm-- I'm not taking therapy, I'm not seeing anybody.


    You know, I gave it my all, gave it my heart. I worked my tail off. And I'm not sure anything I could have done would have changed the outcome. There is some weird solace in that I guess that I don't have to think about it that much. … Looking back on it, I'm not sure what I could've done. Having a conservative record, offering conservative solutions, hopefully giving people a sense that I could've done the job wasn't-- wasn't enough. And it may not have ever been enough-- given the circumstances.


    So what-- kudos for Trump for winning the nomination. It was extraordinary. And you can't-- can't take that away from him. He's the presumptive nominee and he earned it. Now he needs to run for president. There's a difference. And we'll see how that works.



    - - - PART 2 - - -



    This has been an election where the Republican establishment has been mightily and spectacularly bludgeoned. And so I feel like your decision to not vote leaves me without a northern light. How did you arrive at the decision not to vote?



    Well having watched history unfold kind of with a front row seat, I had as you might remember I had a brother who was President, a dad who was President--



    Yeah I know him a little bit.



    --worked for Ronald Reagan. The simple fact is there's a threshold past which anybody that steps into the oval office must go past. And I don't think either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump pass that threshold. In terms of temperament, character, trust worthiness, integrity. So what do you do? I mean if you believe like I do the Presidency is sacred ground and you want a President that uphold the constitution and I don't believe that either one of the candidates fulfills that primary kind of objective, uh, I can't vote for either one of them. 


    There's other people running. There's the libertarian ticket of Gary Johnson and William Weld. I don't know. they don't get a lot of airtime yet. 


    I can't vote for Donald Trump and I can't vote for Hillary Clinton. It breaks my heart. 

    This is my first time in my adult life I'm confronted with this dilemma. 





    I didn't vote in 2008 and I think you only get one of those s decade. If you are a single issue voter. If you care about security. if you are a security mom, that's what we called them in 2004 - your brother's reelection.



    You didn't vote in 2008?



    I didn't.



    What's up with that?



    It's memorialized in an HBO movie. Well, why aren't you voting?






    I didn't like my choices. Exact same reason you're not voting this year. You know Sarah Palin gave me serious pause. I thought if she were--



    John McCain. 






    Come on man.






    Come on woman!



    How is it any different?



    It's very different. 






    John McCain to Donald Trump.



    Sarah Palin was his running mate. How is it any different to say I couldn't vote for Sarah Palin but you can't vote for Donald Trump?



    Because the Vice Presidency and the Presidency is different. And we had 17 candidates running this time, or 18, and I would have been, I would gladly supported any of the candidates--



    Ben Carson? 



    I don't know. You know if Ben Carson ever got to the point where he was tested, but a lot of the governors, I would have been very comfortable with. John Kasich I thought ran a great campaign, And Rubio. Cruz. There are a lot of people. The bar's not that high for me. I'm not suggesting that you have to be a perfect candidate. I'm not a perfect candidate for presidency of the United States and I wouldn't have been a perfect president. I'm not suggesting that. But you got to get past a certain threshold and John McCain got over that hurdle in flying colors. That's just my own view.



    What if nobody votes? I mean that's not what you want. You're the son and brother of two commanders in chief. We live in extraordinary times. I mean if ... 



    I respect people going through the process and saying this is a binary decision. I've heard that term, fancy language



    Curtain number one, curtain number two - chicken or fish as Obama said.



    Yeah. I can't do it. I can't do it.



    What should I do?



    You need to sort it out yourself. If you have a different way to approach this and it's a binary choice for you, fine.



    Commander in chief test. What is the choice? Chicken or fish?



    Neither for me. And you're not going to get me to change that. This whole last two weeks with Hillary Clinton where she was indicted, effectively by the FBI director, you know, everything but the indictment took place, basically said that she lied. And there's a pattern there that is something that I can't get past. And Donald Trump does the exact same thing in a different way. We're in perilous times in our country and we need principled centered leadership. So as for me, I'm back in the private sector and my free time will be involved in education reform and helping principled centered conservatives get elected. 





    Can you understand and give a pass to Republicans who would say Hillary Clinton better understands this portion of the--



    Yeah, again, I-- I've reached my conclusion after deep thought and prayer about this. And I respect other people's views on this. I'm not passing judgment on how they reached their conclusion.



    Is it a reasonable place to end up though?



    It's a reasonable place to end up as a conservative supporting Trump because you can't stand Hillary. And I could see why people would take the opposite and say on foreign policy issues, you know, I can't -- This is my life calling, this is what I've been involved in. But in my case I-- I don't trust Hillary Clinton. I don't think she'd be strong --



    You can't get there on either one. 



    I don't think she'd be a strong leader in the-- on the world stage. She is-- her involvement in foreign policy has been disastrous. The reset button, Libya and other things and she's not been held to account yet.



    - - - PART 3 - - - 



    All right. So it-- one week from today starts the Republican convention. You can watch?



    Yeah, I'll probably watch. Sure.



    Will you be pulling for any outcome? There's sort of a last (UNINTEL) Trump (UNINTEL) plans have one more runner (UNINTEL). So you-- do you have-- are you pulling (UNINTEL) about whether they (UNINTEL) fail or do you hope that they make a statement that maybe makes him change the way he supported (?) himself.



    That'd be great if they could influence his-- his views on things. But then the question is can you trust it? Can you trust what he says because his views change at a drop, you know, drop of a hat.



    You think it'll be good if they had some sort of final hold-off about-- at the convention to get maybe concessions on Muslim ban or on some more conservative, I mean, what's it like to (UNINTEL), I mean, I don't know--





    Yeah, I-- I think we need to defend and protect and advance the conservative cause, so.



    Cheer at the TV if there's some sort of organized--





    I'll cheer at the TV if there's a platform that is talking about high-sustained economic growth, about calling a constitutional convention of the states if we can't get term limits and a balanced budget and then-- the things that are necessary to kind of restore the proper role of the federal government in our lives.





    It's about nominating Donald Trump as president and that's likely to happen, for sure. But it's also about giving a voice to the conservative cause, allowing people to remind themselves of what it-- what it is to be a conservative 'cause right now I think people have their doubts.



    And if that's their narrow purpose (UNINTEL) convention (UNINTEL) and whatnot, that would be another opportunity to say-- that would be a good--








    I think so. And to how I-- the next generation of talented people that are out there.






    Who do you think Trump will pick as a VP? Who should he?  Who do you think?



    I hope he picks someone that has some experience-- that knows how to make a tough decision in the political realm. It's not-- not the same thing. I've-- I've been in business a lot. You-- you-- there are tough decisions to be made in business.


    But in, you know, you don't have-- you have stakeholders. You have a variety of different people, you got constituents. You've got-- it's-- it's three-dimensional chess, not one-dimensional chess. And leadership there is a little more complex. It's important to be a leader. But having made tough decisions in the public -- and ha-- I mean, made mistakes. I mean, my best learning experience wasn't the ones where I got it right, it's where I got it wrong, so.





    --could be Christie, Chris has gone through the whole ringer of-- of making good decisions and probably a few bad ones along the way. He-- he has-- he's earned Trump's respect, it looks like. And someone who has a good personal relationship's important.


    But the-- I don't know. Who else is being con-- Mike Pence-- governor-- governors are safe 'cause they've, you know, you really have to-- you've learned a lot when you're out there being and doing. There are no guardrails as governor. There's no-- can't get into little protective bubbles. You're out there amongst people. And you have to defend your views and-- accept responsibility when you make a mistake and move on. That kind of experience I think will be helpful for Mr. Trump. 



    - - - PART 4 - - - 



    So is it a scam?  Has Trump scammed our voters?



    I think it's-  there will be ample time to talk about that after the election.



    It sounds like you think he scammed our voters.  



    I don't think we're going to build a wall beyond what's already been planned and Mexico's not going to pay for it.  I don't think we're going to ban Muslims. I think we need to reform our entitlement system. 



    Stop right there and tell me (inaudible).  






    No, but seriously- "scammed" might be too provocative a word but you know "The American President," Bob Rumson, is running his campaign telling you who to be afraid of and who to blame.  Is that what Donald Trump is? 



    He's not been specific about how he's going to fix the things that are broken.  He's been quite articulate about saying that things are broken. 



    But you were the guy saying here's how to fix them and- 



    Yeah.  So at some point, over the long haul, when conservatives get back in the game and win the presidency, we need to not just say how bad things are, we need to offer compelling, a compelling path and a completely different direction.  And I'm confident we'll do that.  But um, it's not going to happen in this presidential election year.



    He loses in a landslide, will any of you feel vindicated or- 



    I'll feel sad. 



    If he wins, will you feel- 



    I'll be worried. 



    So there's no good outcome for you?



    No.  That's why I can't vote for either candidate.  It's not- this is a decision that's painful for me.  I love my country like everybody else does and I see us languishing at a time when we should just be leading the world. 



    You think your parents are going to vote for anybody?



    I don't know, I'm not really asking them. I don't want to ask.



    Because you don't want to know or- 



    I don't want to know. Some things, parents just need to be doing their thing without knowing.  I don't want to know because I don't want to say.


    # # # 





    HAYES:  For three days in a row now, ever since he gave a scripted policy

    speech in an aluminum factor, the presumptive Republican presidential

    nominee Donald Trump has been focusing more than ever on one issue --

    trade.  Pretty clear the Trump campaign thinks this is the best issue they

    have.  Trump has criticized Hillary Clinton for being married to the man

    who signed NAFTA and for being less than convincing in her opposition to



    And Trump explicitly says he agrees with Bernie Sanders on trade, trying to

    drive a wedge between Sanders supporters and Hillary Clinton. 





    thing about Bernie, and he -- you know, he`ll be nasty and say, "Oh, I`d

    never vote for Trump," but that`s OK.  I know what he thinks inside.  He

    hates her.  He hates her. 


    You wouldn`t think this, but there is one thing that Bernie Sanders and I

    are in complete accord with, and that`s trade.  He said we`re being ripped

    off, I say we`re being ripped off.  I`ve been saying it for years, he`s

    been saying it for years. 




    HAYES:  And who better to respond to that than Senator Bernie Sanders,

    Democratic candidate for president. 


    All right, Senator.  Two claims made there.  I`ll take them in order. 

    Number one, Donald Trump says, whatever you say, you hate Hillary Clinton. 

    Is that true? 



    has read my mind.  What a man, what a genius. 


    No, the answer is, of course, Trump is lying as he always does.  No, I do

    not hate Secretary Clinton.  I`ve known her for 25 years.  I have a lot of

    respect for her.  We`ve worked together. 


    We have disagreements on issues, but to say that I hate her is absolutely



    HAYES:  OK.  The second thing, though, and I -- it`s been -- I can only

    imagine how interesting you find this, given that how interesting I find

    it.  All of a sudden, Donald Trump, great crusader for better trade

    practices, the great hope for working America, he says he`s just picking up

    your mantel, you guys agree entirely, what say you to that? 


    SANDERS:  Well, is this before or after his companies manufacturing

    clothing in Bangladesh and in China and in other low-wage countries?  He`s

    now come to the conclusion that our trade policies are failing. 


    The truth is, you know, for many, many years, what I have understood, what

    I think most workers in this country have understood, what

    environmentalists have understood is that, in fact, our trade policies,

    from NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, to the TPP -- these are not policies

    that benefit the middle class and working families.  What they have done to

    a very significant degree have enabled large corporations to shut down in

    this country, throw American workers out on the street and move to low-wage



    And, by the way, Chris, in addition, it`s led to a race to the bottom,

    where workers are often given the choice of taking cuts in pay or health

    care or seeing their factories move abroad. 


    So, I think we have to rethink in a fundamental way, our unfettered free

    trade policies and move toward fair trade policies. 


    HAYES:  I want to talk about TPP, particularly as it pertains to the

    platform.  Before we get to that, though, we have this tweet from Rachel

    Martin of NPR, who said in an interview conducted with Vice President

    Biden, he just said, "I`ve talked to Bernie.  Bernie is going to endorse

    her."  Her being Hillary Clinton. 


    Is this true? 


    SANDERS:  I talked to Joe, I think it was three weeks ago. 


    Look, on that issue, we are trying to work with Secretary Clinton`s

    campaign on areas that we can agree on, where the people who supported me,

    we`ve got 12 million, 13 million votes.  And what they want to see, whether

    it is on making moving toward making public colleges and universities

    tuition-free, or moving very aggressively in terms of health care and

    moving toward a universal health care system, significantly expanding

    primary health care, those are the issues that we`re working with Secretary

    Clinton on now and I hope we can be successful. 


    HAYES:  But there is a difference.  You`ve made a distinction between

    voting and endorsing, right?  And we`ve seen, for instance, Elizabeth

    Warren, who did not endorse during the primary.  She has endorsed. 


    And that endorsement isn`t just "I`m going to vote for Hillary Clinton". 

    She`s been on the stump.  She`s been affirmatively praising her. 


    Is that something you can see yourself doing, or is it just the case that

    you`re never going to come to enough policy agreement with Hillary Clinton

    that you will ever be in that position? 


    SANDERS:  Well, Chris, let me back it up, by saying, I`m going to do

    everything that I can to defeat Donald Trump.  I think for a variety of



    Number one, he`s a pathological liar.  That`s not a good quality to have in

    a president.  Number two, he wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars

    in tax breaks to the top 2/10 of 1 percent by repealing the estate tax.  He

    thinks that climate change is a hoax. 


    And maybe most importantly, we cannot have a president who goes around

    insulting Mexicans, and Latinos, and Muslims, and women and African

    Americans.  I mean, that`s outrageous. 


    So, I`m going to do everything that I can to see that Donald Trump is

    defeated.  I --


    HAYES:  What if "everything I can" means going to rallies and doing -- I

    mean, doing the kind of thing that is standard part of endorsing a party

    nominee?  Is that in that category of "everything you can"? 


    SANDERS:  Well, I think -- as I`ve just said, I mean, it`s not great

    secret.  We`re trying to do everything we can right now to make the

    Democratic platform, the most progressive platform in the history of the

    Democratic Party.


    And, by the way, we`re having good success.  I want to see that continue as

    the full committee meets in Orlando.  We are working.  I mean, as we speak,

    we are working with the Clinton campaign, trying to be able to come forward

    and say to my supporters out there, you know what, here`s the progress that

    we have made.  Hear what Secretary Clinton is saying on this issue and that

    issue that means a whole lot to you. 


    So I hope we can reach that goal.  We are not there at this moment. 


    HAYES:  OK, one issue outstanding and here`s -- what I`m hearing from you

    is basically the platform is very important to you, substantively.  It`s a

    substantive commitment of where the Democratic Party`s at.  You feel that

    you`ve made progress.  There are a number of things.  For instance,

    opposition to the death penalty, which hasn`t gotten a lot of attention but

    is a pretty big change for the Democratic Party. 


    SANDERS:  That`s right.  Wall Street, we got language in there that would

    call for the break-up of banks and the re-establishment of Glass-Steagall. 

    That`s a pretty big deal. 


    HAYES:  Right.  So, there`s been -- there have been some very significant

    substantive victories.  One area that was defeated was an anti-Trans

    Pacific Partnership plank in the platform.  And I want to read to you the

    account from "The Washington Post" which seems to be credible but would

    like to get your response. 


    They said, "According to the people with knowledge of the platform

    negotiations, Sanders used his post-primary meeting with the president to

    say he would push for the party to officially oppose TPP.  The president

    said he would not allow it.  And since then, the White House has leaned on

    key Democrats to make sure the platform did not include a rebuke."


    Is that an accurate characterization of what happened between you and the



    SANDERS:  Well, I don`t want to talk about a discussion that I had with the

    president.  It`s not great secret that President Obama who I am very fond

    of, I have worked with him and supported him on so many issues and I think

    this country will owe him a deep debt of gratitude when he leaves office

    for all that he has accomplished. 


    On this issue, we have a fundamental disagreement.  I think TPP is a

    continuation of disastrous trade policies of the past and I`m not just --

    this is not just Bernie Sanders, this is every trade union in America,

    virtually every environmental group, groups like Doctors Without Borders,

    who understand that TPP will mean higher prescription drug costs for some

    of the poorest people in the world, who will die because they can`t get the

    generic medicine that they need. 


    So I am very strongly opposed to the TPP.  And in a democratic society,

    people can have differences of opinion.  That`s kind of, you know, a United

    States senator can disagree on an issue with the president. 


    HAYES:  I`m going to ask you just one more time on this Biden quote.  He

    said you talked to him and you said you would endorse Hillary Clinton.  Is

    that accurate?  Is Joe Biden telling the truth, or is this a loose

    interpretation of what you said? 


    SANDERS:  Wait -- well, Joe and I talked about three weeks ago and as I

    said, right now, my hope is that we can reach an agreement on some very

    important issues and I can go forward to the millions of people who

    supported me and say, look, this is the progress you`ve made, this is where

    we`re going to go as a country. 


    So I hope it happens.  As of this moment, we`re not there quite yet. 


    HAYES:  All right.  Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for your time

    tonight.  I appreciate it. 


    SANDERS:  Thank you, Chris. 










    JUNE 28, 2016 -- MSNBC broke ratings records across all key dayparts for both the month of June and the second quarter of 2016, and continues to post significantly higher year-to-year growth than its cable news competitors. MSNBC prime (8-11pm) beat CNN outright to rank #2 among total viewers for the quarter and delivered its biggest total viewer audience since 4Q12. At 9pm, “The Rachel Maddow Show” topped CNN in both total viewers and the demo – marking the 27th straight quarterly win over CNN in total viewers and the second straight in the demo. For the quarter, “Morning Joe” drew the biggest total viewer audience for the 6-9am timeslot in MSNBC’s history as well as the show’s best demo average in over three years (since 4Q12). “Morning Joe” beat CNN’s “New Day” in both total viewers and the demo – marking the fifth straight quarterly win over CNN in total viewers and the second straight in the demo. MSNBC’s breaking news-focused dayside programming (9am-5pm) topped the previous quarter’s record, delivering the daypart’s best total viewer average since 4Q12 and best demo average since 1Q13. Dayside’s year-to-year growth continues to far outpace the competition with gains of +93% in total viewers (vs. just +34% for CNN and +12% for FOX) and +130% in the key demo (vs. just +25% for CNN and +14% for FOX) compared to 2Q15. MSNBC’s Total Day (M-Su 6am-6am) audience hit its highest numbers since 4Q12 in total viewers and since 1Q14 in the demo. MSNBC is posting more Total Day growth than the competition, up +61% among total viewers (vs. 46% for CNN and +18% for FOX) and up +54% in the demo (vs. 36% for CNN and +16% for FOX) compared to 2Q15. 2Q 2016 PROGRAM HIGHLIGHTS MORNING JOE (M-F 6-9am)

    • Morning Joe” delivered the biggest total viewer audience for the 6-9am timeslot in MSNBC’s history, as well as its best demo average in over three years (since 4Q12).
    • “Morning Joe” topped CNN’s “New Day” among both total viewers and the demo. This marks the fifth straight quarterly win over CNN in total viewers and the second straight quarter in the demo.
    • “Morning Joe” posted significantly higher year-to-year growth than the competition, up +68% among total viewers (vs. +36% for CNN’s and +16% for FOX) and up +95% in the demo (vs. +23% for CNN and +7% for FOX).
    • “Morning Joe” averaged 608,000 total viewers (ahead of CNN’s 448,000) and 154,000 viewers A25-54 (ahead of CNN’s 135,000).

    DAYSIDE (M-F 9am-5pm)

    • MSNBC dayside’s year-to-year growth continues to soar over the competition, posting gains of +93% in total viewers (vs. +34% for CNN and +12% for FOX) and +130% in the key demo (vs. +25% for CNN and +14% for FOX). 
    • 2Q16 marks MSNBC dayside’s biggest total viewer audience since 4Q12 and best demo average since 1Q13.
    • More cable news viewers are choosing MSNBC: the 9am-5pm daypart pulled in its largest share of the total viewer audience since 4Q12 and largest share of the demo audience since 1Q13.

    EARLY EVENING (M-F 5-8pm)

    • MTP Daily with Chuck Todd,” which launched in September 2015, posted the 5pm time period’s best total viewer average since 4Q13 and best demo average since 1Q14.
    • With All Due Respect,” which debuted on MSNBC in January 2016, delivered the 6pm time period’s highest total viewer average since 1Q14 and highest demo average since 2Q14.
    • Hardball with Chris Matthews” topped CNN among total viewers and delivered the show’s best total viewer average since 4Q13. “Hardball” also delivered its best demo average since 1Q14.

    WEEKDAY PRIME (M-F 8-11pm)

    • MSNBC beat CNN outright to rank #2 in prime among total viewers.
    • MSNBC prime delivered its biggest total viewer audience since 4Q12.
    • Compared to 2Q15, MSNBC prime is up +90% in total viewers (vs. +88 for CNN and +21% for FOX) and +113% in the demo (vs. +71% for CNN and +15% for FOX).
    • All In with Chris Hayes” delivered its best averages in both total viewers and the demo since 4Q12.
    • Compared to 2Q15, “All In” is up +74% in total viewers (vs. +50% for CNN and +19% for FOX) and up +105% in the demo (vs. +37% for CNN and +10% for FOX).
    • The Rachel Maddow Show” ranked #2 in both total viewers and the demo, beating CNN’s regular programming for the 27th straight quarter in total viewers and second quarter in the demo.
    • “The Rachel Maddow Show” delivered its biggest total viewer audience since 4Q12 and biggest demo audience since 4Q12.
    • Compared to 2Q15, “The Rachel Maddow Show” is up +73% in total viewers (vs. 60% for CNN and +14% for FOX) and up +110% in the demo (vs. 43% for CNN and +8% for FOX).
    • The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” topped CNN’s regular programming in total viewers for the fourth straight quarter.
    • “The Last Word” delivered its best averages in both total viewers and the demo since 4Q12. 
    • Compared to 2Q15, “The Last Word” is up +96% in total viewers (vs. +36% for CNN and +41% for FOX) and up +102% in the demo (vs. +19% for CNN and +35% for FOX).


    • MSNBC ranked #2 ahead of CNN in total viewers.
    • Compared to June 2015, MSNBC prime is up +89% in total viewers (far ahead of CNN’s +64% and FOX’s +21%) and up +109% in the demo (nearly double CNN’s +58% and ahead of FOX’s +14%).
    • Morning Joe” ranked #2 in both total viewers and the demo, topping CNN among total viewers for the 16th straight month and in the demo for the third straight month.
    • “Morning Joe” posted the time period’s best total viewer delivery since April 2003.
    • MSNBC dayside delivered its best monthly total viewer average since January 2013.
    • Compared to June 2015, MSNBC dayside is up +92% in total viewers (vs. 46% for CNN and 18% for FOX) and up +147% in the demo (vs. 33% for CNN and +20% for FOX).
    • MTP Daily” posted the 5pm time period’s biggest total viewer audience since October 2013 and best demo average since February 2014.
    • With All Due Respect” drew the 6pm time period’s biggest total viewer audience since January 2014 and best demo average since April 2014.
    • Hardball with Chris Matthews” ranked #2 in total viewers, marking the third straight monthly win over CNN and the show’s biggest total audience since October 2013.
    • All In with Chris Hayes” ranked #2 in total viewers, topping CNN and delivering the biggest total audience since November 2012.
    • The Rachel Maddow Show” ranked #2 in both total viewers and the demo, marking the 37th straight win over CNN among total viewers and second straight demo win over CNN.
    • The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” ranked #2 in total viewers for the 13th straight month, posting its best total viewer audience since November 2012 and best demo average since December 2012.
  • MORNING JOE NEWS: Bernie Sanders Says “Yes,” He Will Vote for Hillary Clinton in November

    Today on “Morning Joe,” Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) said, “Yes,” he will vote for Hillary Clinton in November. Rush transcript and video are below. Mandatory credit: MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

    Video: http://on.msnbc.com/293vi3c

    Embed Code:

    <iframe src='http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_mj_sanders1_160624' height='500' width='635' scrolling='no' border='no' ></iframe>


    WILLIE GEIST:  Joining us now, Democratic presidential candidate, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Senator, always good to see you, sir. 


    BERNIE SANDERS:  Good to be with you.


    GEIST:  Your reaction to the vote overnight, did the people o Great Britain make the right call here? 


    SANDERS: Well,  I don't live in great Britain, but I’ll tell you what I think.


    What worries me very much is the breaking down of international cooperation.  Europe in the 20th century, as we all know, the kind of blood that was shed there was – is unimaginable. You never want to see that again. 


    On the other hand, I think what this vote is about is an indication that the global economy is not working for everybody, you know?  It's not working in the United States for everybody and it's not working in the U.K. for everybody.  When you see, you know, investors going to China and shutting down factories in this country, and laying off over a period of many years, millions of people are saying, you know what, global economy may be great for some people, not for me. 


    So what we need to do is create a situation where there is more international cooperation.  We put an end to these horrific wars that we have seen over the years.  But at the same time, we do not forget about the people left behind and we make sure that we have jobs, and income and health care for all of our people. 


    GEIST:  So, based off what you said then is withdraw from the E.U. then a  mistake for the  U.K. ? 


    SANDERS:  I'll let the people in the U.K. make that decision. 


    NICOLLE WALLACE:  Turning back to – to our country's broiling politics, are you going to vote for Hillary Clinton in November? 


    SANDERS:  Yes, yes, I think the issue right here is I'm going to do everything I can to defeat Donald Trump.  I think Trump in so many ways will be a disaster for this country, if he were to be elected president. 


    We do not need a president whose cornerstone of his campaign is – is bigotry, is insulting Mexicans, and Latinos, and Muslims and women; who does not believe in the reality of climate change when virtually every scientist who has studied this issue understands we have a global crisis.  This is not somebody who should become president. 


    What my job right now is is to fight for the strongest possible platform in the Democratic convention and as we speak in St.  Louis, that's going on right now.  And that means a platform that represents working people that stands up to big money interests and that's what we're trying to do. 


    WALLACE:  So your vote will be a vote for Hillary Clinton or against Donald trump? 


    SANDERS:  Well, look, I don’t want to parse words right now. What I am trying to do right now is to make sure that the Democratic party becomes the party that represents working people, not Wall Street, that is prepared…


    WALLACE:  So is it…


    SANDERS:  … that is prepared to have an agenda that speaks to the need of creating millions of jobs, raising the minimum wage to $15.00 an hour, dealing with climate change, dealing with pay equity.  Those are the issues that we need to have not only in a platform, but we need Democratic leadership to be implemented. 


    GEIST:  So Senator, just to put a button on this, you said, you'll vote for Hillary Clinton, which means you won't vote for yourself.  Have you accepted now that you won’t be the nominee? 


    SANDERS:  I'm pretty good at arithmetic, and what I know is that Hillary Clinton has more pledged delegates than I do, and she has a lot more super-delegates than I do. 


    But what I also know is we're bringing 1,900 delegates into the convention, that we have received 13 million votes and that what I am going to be doing right now, and I'm starting this afternoon, heading to Syracuse for an event this evening, is we are – we are going to be urging millions of people to get involved in the political process. 


    You may recall last week I did a speech on the Internet, and I said, get involved and – and run for school board, run for city council, run for state legislation.  You know how many people responded?  20,000 people.  So, what we want to do is reinvigorate the Democratic party, bring new blood in and have a party that represents working people. 


    GEIST:  So if you – if you -- Senator, if you’ve accepted the arithmetic of – of the race and you realize that she's likely to become the nominee, why not withdraw from the race? 


    SANDERS:  Why would I want to do that when I want to fight to make sure that we have the best platform that we possibly can, that we win the most delegates that we can and that we transform -- the goal of our campaign was to transform this nation. 


    WALLACE:  So, the disunity isn't putting any disadvantage against Donald Trump? 


    SANDERS:  Look, you talk about disunity, I talk about involving the American people in the political process and wanting to have a government and a party that represents all of us. 


    When you have disunity, what we're talking about is kids can't – can’t afford to go to college or leaving college $50,000 in debt, people dying because they don't get to a doctor when they should.   Talk about disunity is the fact that we have 47 million people living in poverty.  What we want is a government that represents all of us and that's what I intend to fight for. 


    BARNICLE:  So I -- I’ve been writing about you off and on and listening to your voice off and on. 


    SANDERS:  Oh, I know that, Mike. 


    GEIST:  For years, and years and years you’ve been talking about the same issues consistently for 50 years. 


    And now in your presidential campaign, you just referenced it, you know, people's needs, working people’s needs, jobs leaving this country. 


    SANDERS:  Right.


    GEIST:  But it seems today, and yesterday's vote is another indication of it, this tide of globalization that cannot be stopped.  And millions of people in this country and in Europe basically asking themselves, where do I fit in this going forward?   Where do they fit? 


    SANDERS:  Mike, that's the right question.  And that's – that’s a question that we should be always asking and I’ve asked 20 years ago. 


    I was in Indiana a few months ago.  Two factories there being shut down, over 2,000 workers thrown out on the street.  Company, United Technologies, a very profitable corporation moving to Monterrey, Mexico, paying people $3.00 an hour.  What do you think the people in Indiana feel about globalization?  What we have to do is create an economy, and this is not that hard, that works for all of us, not just the people on top. 


    Unfettered free trade may be good for multinational corporations.  You know what? It is not good for the middle class and many workers.  So, we have got to shape trade policies and you can do that.  American workers, in my view, should not have to compete against people in Vietnam who make a minimum wage of $00.65 an hour.  That's my view.  And you know what?  I think most people agree with that. 


    Does that mean to say we build a wall around America, that you don’t have any trade?   That is absolutely not what I am saying.  Trade is a good thing.  International cooperation is imperative, but you have to pay attention to the working people in this country, not just to the CEOs who love these things, who write these trade agreements. 


    GEIST:  We have got a lot more to talk about with Senator Bernie Sanders.  A very quick break and much more with Senator Bernie Sanders, right after this.




    GEIST:  We are back now with presidential candidate, Senator Bernie Sanders. 


    Senator, I was watching your speech last night here in New York City and you said something that jumped out to me.  To the audience and the people watching at home, you said never lose your sense of outrage. 


    What did you mean by that in a specific way? 


    SANDERS:  We walk down the streets and see people sleeping out on the streets.  We know that there are schools in this country where more people who grad -- leave those schools will end up in jail than will graduate college. 


    We have a grotesque level of income and wealth inequality, such as the top one tenth of one percent now owns as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent.  This is outrageous, outrageous, outrageous and no American should accept that.  And what we have got to do is fight for a country that works for all of us. 


    This is not utopian -- you know, visionary thinking.  We have the technology, we have the wealth to do that.  Why are we the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all people?   You tell me.  Are we too dumb, we can't do it?  Why do we not do what Germany does and make sure that we have free tuition at public colleges and universities.  That is a good investment for America. 


    Why do we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on earth?  These are things we should be outraged at.  And yet, for a variety of reasons, you know, those issues are pushed aside and we're told how wonderful everything is.  Well, it's not wonderful if you're a working person. 




    BARNICLE:  Go ahead, Steve.


    RATTNER:  Let me ask you, if I could, two sort of economic questions.  You alluded in the earlier segment to the carrier (ph) Indiana -- the plant -- carrier plant in Indiana, excuse me, that was moving to Mexico and that's something that Donald Trump has talked a lot about on the campaign trail as well.


    So given that both of you guys have identified this as the kind of thing that shouldn't happen in America, he has one solution.  I suspect you might have a different solution.  What would you do about the problem of a carrier type plant moving to Mexico? 


    SANDERS:  I think you need to develop a trade policy which says if you want to shut down in America, you want to move abroad, you want to pay people $3 an hour in Mexico, you know what, you're not going to bring your products back to this country tariff free.  And by the way, in terms of...


    RATTNER:  Isn't that what Donald Trump says?


    SANDERS:  Well, so what?  I mean, it's not a new idea. 


    RATTNER:  I'm just asking. 


    SANDERS:  Yeah, you know, in it terms of United Technologies, here's what else you do.  United Technologies, as I recall, gets about $5 billion a year in defense contracts.  And maybe the president sits down with United Technologies and say, you know what, if you want to benefit from defense contracts, you might be a good citizen and you might -- take the needs of the American worker into consideration.  I think those are some of the things...


    WALLACE:  There could be -- I'm sorry,


    RATTNER:  (Inaudible) my other part.  Hillary Clinton gave an economic speech a couple days ago in which she talked about no student should graduate from a public school with debt.  She talked about raising taxes on the rich.  Some things that sounded very reminiscent of the things that you're saying.  Do you feel that she's moved your way?  Do you feel like she's moved your way enough? 


    SANDERS:  Well, you know, the devil is in the details.  I believe that in the year 2016 when you talk about public education it should mean that public colleges and universities are tuition free.  And there are other things that you can do and that's what I want to see happen. 


    Has Hillary Clinton taken some of the positions or moved to some degree where we are in terms of the TPP, in terms of the Keystone Pipeline, maybe in terms of Social Security?  Yeah, I think she has to some degree.  But nowhere near as far as I think we need to go. 


    BARNICLE:  We just played, obviously, before you got here, a clip from Donald Trump's press conference live from Scotland.  He says many of the same things there that he says here around the country during his campaign. 


    What do you hear when he says, quote, "People want to take their country back again," unquote.  What do you hear? 


    SANDERS:  Well, I hear a phony.  I hear a multibillionaire.  I hear a very arrogant egotistical man who will say anything to try to get votes and I have zero respect for anybody who tries to get votes by insulting Mexicans or Muslims or women. 


    So I think you got a political opportunist of the worst kind.  I don't think he believes in anything.  I think the -- I would not -- you know, I have used this word.  If you know me well enough, you know that I don't go around attacking personally other people.


    He's a pathological liar.  That's not just me who is saying that.  It's -- in the media who covers him.  Guy says one thing on one day and the next thing he says -- the next day something else.  So that's kind of my views (ph) on Trump.


    WALLACE:  Sir, 55 percent of your supporters have said that should you not be the nominee, they will support Hillary Clinton.  Do you have, in your mind, a higher number than that?  Do you want 100 percent of your supporters to get behind -- and what will you do to move that number up if that is one of your goals? 


    SANDERS:  Well, one of my goals -- my major goal is to make sure that Trump does not become president of the United States.  My other major goal right now is to make sure that we have a stronger House and Senate as possible.  I'm going to do everything I can to see the Democrats regain control of the Senate, that we win as many seats in the House, win as many governors races.


    And by the way, that we create a movement.  What we're trying to do now is to create a movement within the Democratic Party of progressives who are going to run for election from the school board on up to the United States Congress. 


    GEIST:  A lot of Democrats have said, Senator, could he not simultaneously continue the movement, keeping out their supporting candidates and support Hillary Clinton as the nominee.  Why don't you go at it at that way? 


    SANDERS:  Well we have talked -- you know, we -- are in discussions, frankly, with the Clinton camp.  And it would be of no great shock to you that what we want from them is to be very, very strong on a number of issues. 


    WALLACE:  On policy. 


    SANDERS:  On policy issues, absolutely.  You know, I want -- I would like Hillary Clinton to say, you know what, yeah, public colleges and universities should be tuition free.  Can we do other things?  Yeah, we can. 


    I would like to see Hillary Clinton move us closer.  She's not going to adopt my view of a Medicare for all single-payer program.  I know that.  But I would like to see her go a lot further than she has in making sure that we're moving toward a day in the very near future where all of our people have health care as a right, not a privilege. 


    GEIST:  Okay.  As we leave you, I know you have to get going, I want to play for you one thing.  I don't know if you saw this young man named Jack Aiello, an eighth grader from the Chicago area at his high school graduation did an impersonation of all the presidential candidates, including you.  Jimmy Fallon then invited him on his show.  Here's Jack Aiello doing Bernie Sanders.




    JACK AIELLO, IMPRESSIONIST (as Little Donald Trump):  You know, it's just fantastic to be here.  It's just fantastic. 


    JIMMY FALLON, HOST OF THE TONIGHT SHOW (as Donald Trump):  Isn't it beautiful?  Isn't it terrific? 


    AIELLO:  Down boy, down. 


    FALLON:  Down boy.  Down boy.  Easy -- easy, boy. 


    AIELLO:  Easy, easy, easy.


    FALLON:  Hey little Donald, I've got an idea.  Let's prank call Hillary.  Here.  You pretend to be Bernie Sanders. 


    AIELLO:  Hello, Secretary Clinton, this is Senator Bernie Sanders.  Is your refrigerator running?  Well, so am I!  And I'm never, ever dropping out!


    FALLON:  Genius.  That's genius.  Where did you learn all these amazing impressions?


    AIELLO:  Trump University, which is terrific, by the way.








    GEIST:  How's Jack's Bernie Sanders?


    SANDERS:  That's pretty good.




    WALLACE:  And if you're not laughing, you're crying, right?


    GEIST:  Senator Bernie Sanders, we always really appreciate your time.


    WALLACE:  Thank you.


    GEIST:  Thanks so much for being here.


    SANDERS:  Thank you.








    Former presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) spoke to NBC’s Kelly O’Donnell on the heels of his announcement that he will run for re-election to the Senate in November.


    Asked why he changed his mind, Sen. Rubio stated: “Well, first, I did change my mind.  I never said I was perfect or  I had all the answers.  And look, the bottom line is, I feel deeply that no matter who is elected president of the United States we are to need a Senate that has people willing to check and balance that.”


    He later added, “the U.S. Senate plays a very important role in checking and balancing the excesses of the president.  And I think no matter who's elected that's going to be really important in 2016, and so it's one of the reasons why I changed my mind and chose to run.”  


    On if he will campaign with Donald Trump: “Well, I have said I'm not going to, and the reason why is because we have significant disagreements on a lot of issues.  But I disagree with Hillary on everything.  So it's a race between a candidate that I disagree with on a lot of things and candidate that I disagree on almost everything.”


    Regarding whether he’ll vote for Donald Trump, he noted, “I'm not going to abstain and I'm not going to vote for Hillary.”


    Asked if he’ll run for president in 2020, Sen. Rubio stated: “It's not my plan.  If it was I wouldn't run for re-election.”


    Full transcript below. If used, please provide mandatory credit: “MSNBC”


    Video: http://on.msnbc.com/28S0Efo




    SNOW:  We are back with breaking news on Capitol Hill, where as we mentioned our Kelly O'Donnell just moments ago had a chance to interview Florida Senator Marco Rubio, former presidential candidate, who has just announced that he will be running for re-election in November.  




    O'DONNELL:  Senator Rubio, you told us so many times you would not seek another term.  You told us so many times you almost got irritated when we pressed you on it.  Why change your mind and why now?  


    RUBIO:  Well, first, I did change my mind.  I never said I was perfect or  I had all the answers.  And look, the bottom line is, I feel deeply that no matter who is elected president of the United States we are to need a Senate that has people willing to check and balance that.  And that's true whether it's a president of your own party or from the other side.  


    And I got into public service to try to make a difference.  You know, obviously we had a path available to us that would have been more comfortable and a little less risky politically.  But I don't -- I couldn't come to grips with the idea that at a moment where I could have made a difference, both in the outcome of the race and future of the Senate over the next six years of the country that I was going walk away from that challenge, and so when the opportunity presented itself about 10 days ago because Carlos Lopez-Cantera, who was in the race, asked me to think about it.  We did as a family over the weekend.  We decided to choose the path of service.  


    O'DONNELL:  And Donald Trump of course beat you in your home state during the primary season.  So there are some who say you could actually lose twice because although being an incumbent is an advantage, it's not a sure thing.  


    RUBIO:  Sure, it's a difficult race.  I get the political risk involved.  The politically safe thing to do is to just kind of go home and be comfortable for a while and live to fight another day.  But there's too much at stake.  And when that opportunity presented itself we looked at it carefully.  We prayed about it, and we reached this conclusion.  


    I fully understand that from a political point of view this is probably not the safest or logical choice.  But to me -- honestly this choice wasn't about politics.  I knew what the safer route was politically.  


    O'DONNELL:  Do you remain committed to supporting Donald Trump?  You talked about feeling some anxiety about his positions and things that he has said.  Would you campaign with him?


    RUBIO:  Well, I have said I'm not going to, and the reason why is because we have significant disagreements on a lot of issues.  But I disagree with Hillary on everything.  So it's a race between a candidate that I disagree with on a lot of things and candidate that I disagree on almost everything.  


    So it's not the ideal choice, not the choice that I wanted -- I ran for president -- but it's the choice the voters have made.  And I respect it.  Irrespective of the presidency we're going to have a U.S. Senate.  And in the Constitution, the U.S. Senate plays a very important role in checking and balancing the excesses of the president.  And I think no matter who's elected that's going to be really important in 2016, and so it's one of the reasons why I changed my mind and chose to run.  


    O'DONNELL:  You were criticized for your absenteeism as a candidate and you said a number of things about what it means to be a senator, that you really didn't enjoy the position.  


    Won't that be a factor in your race?  Do you want this job?  


    RUBIO:  I am frustrated by the Senate.  But who isn't?  Eight-nine percent of Americans have a dim view of Congress.  There's a lot of parts of this job that are very frustrating.  I think everybody can see that.  And there are parts of this job that are very fulfilling.  I've said that, even during the campaign.  I talked about the ability to deliver constituents, and the Senate is a place where you can point to big ideas, and hopefully move them forward.  


    But in 2016 and beyond, for the next six years, I think the Senate is going to play an incredibly important role in being a check and balance on the excesses of whoever wins the presidential race.  And that's the part that ultimately convinced me to change my mind and do this.  So I don't -- I'm prepared to come back and serve in the Senate as it is, not as I wish it were, in hopes of maybe changing it so it works better.  But I'm not -- my eyes are wide open as to what kind of Senate I'm coming back to.  And like most Americans I'm frustrated about it, but that's not a reason to give up.  


    O'DONNELL:  You've always been seen as a bright future face in your party, and many of your supporters would like to see you run in 2020, not knowing what the White House race will result in.  Would you commit to the voters of Florida you would serve a full six-year term.  


    RUBIO:  Well, here's what I'm not going to do anymore is make these unequivocal statements about anything.  Because No. 1, I don't know who the next president of the United States will be and No. 2, if I was looking to run for president in 2020, getting back into a Senate race in the most competitive seat in the country, state in the country, at this late in the game is incredibly risky and probably not the best way forward.  


    But here's what I can tell you -- I'm prepared to come back and dedicate my heart and soul to this place as hard as I've ever done.  And if all I'll ever be is a U.S. senator from Florida, and we were able to make a difference, I'll be at peace with that.  I think we can make a real impact here.


    O'DONNELL:  So just to be clear, you will not rule out running in 2020, even though a Senate term would extend for six years?  


    RUBIO:  I've just learned I think perhaps the hard way to stop talking about things that you don't -- can't predict far off in the future and hypotheticals.  It's not my plan.  If it was I wouldn't run for re-election.  This is not the ideal step that you take to throw yourself back into the race like this, where it's going to be very difficult, and there is a risk of losing.  It's a very competitive seat.  


    So I'm doing it because I'm coming back to be a senator with all of my heart and soul, because -- and I said if all I'll ever be is a U.S. senator from Florida that's a good thing, and I'll be at peace with it.  


    O'DONNELL:  When you were running for president and we would ask you about things that Donald Trump had said or done, I know that was frustrating for you because you wanted to tell your own story.  


    As a Senate candidate you'll often be asked about something he is doing or saying.  Do you think he will have a negative effect on your ability to be re-elected?  


    RUBIO:  Well, I think I'll have to run on who I am.  But it's relevant, and I'll tell you why, because when you're in the Senate, as I just said, we're going to be a check and balance.  And so if Donald Trump says something that I don't agree with, I'll tell people.  When I'm in the Senate, if he tries to do that, I'll try to stop him.  When Donald says something I'll agree with, I'll say that.  When I'm in the Senate I'll try to work with him on that.  


    The same is true with Hillary.  The problem is I'll probably disagree with virtually everything she stands for, virtually everything.  So what we're -- what I'm not going to allow is sit back and watch the Senate fall under the control of the Democrats, who if Hillary wins are going to basically be a blank check and our country can't afford that.  


    O'DONNELL:  And do you think you are going to give the Senate a better chance of remaining in Republican hands by being in this race?  Was that part of it?  The majority being at stake?  


    RUBIO:  Well, I -- with no disrespect to the other people running, because they have a right to run.  I know they put a lot of time and energy in their own races, and I'm not asking any of them to get out, and I respect their decision.  And -- but I do believe that I give us a better chance to win.  But no guarantees.  This is going to be a tough race.  I'm ready for this tough race.  It's worth fighting for.  


    O'DONNELL:  And you will likely draw Democrats to have to spend more money in Florida, and that may change things strategically.  Do you think tactically you help the party?  


    RUBIO:  Honestly that wasn't even part of our consideration.  I knew -- I heard all the voices of people encouraging me to run.  I was obviously honored by that.  But my decision was made in West Miami, Florida, in my home in between -- as I said to some people already today, in between pressure cleaning my driveway, Jeanette and I and the kids spent some time talking about what this would mean.  


    And we had two paths to choose, kind of a more comfortable life and less risk, or the chance to make a difference both in this election and ultimately for this country.  And that's the path we chose, and I'm proud of it, I really am.  


    O'DONNELL:  Two quick questions to remain, when I asked you about Donald Trump, do you intend to vote for him even though you don't want to campaign with him?  


    RUBIO:  Well, I am not going to abstain.  And I can tell you that this is not the choice a lot of people wanted.  I obviously ran for president, that's the choice I wanted.  It's the choice we have.  


    And it's a choice between, as I told you, Donald Trump, who I disagree with on a lot of things, and Hillary Clinton, who I disagree with on everything.  And it's an unusual choice.  I mean, most years I have more in common with the Republican nominee than I do this year.  


    But in the end I'm not going to abstain and I'm not going to vote for Hillary.  


    O'DONNELL:  And finally, we know you were on the ground in Orlando.  The country has been concerned about all the events that have happened there, the families that have been so affected, and all the root causes of what transpired there.  


    Did that have any impact or influence on your decision?  


    RUBIO:  Well, it had an impact on me personally, I'm not sure it had an impact on the decision per se.  This decision is beyond one event, as tragic and horrible it is.  


    It had an impact on me personally in terms not just on the human level, but also on the thought process of what real service should be all about.  But ultimately my decision was about, where is the right place for me and my family over the next six years?  


    And we think it's public service given the challenges that our country is facing, and it's an opportunity I didn't think would happen.  I was really prepared to move forward in our lives and have peace with that, and quite frankly looking forward to many aspects of it.  


    And when my -- when Carlos Lopez-Cantera sat with me and asked me to reconsider, and  he was in the race, I did.  And this was the conclusion that we reached.  So in the end it's about as much as anything else the desire to continue to serve.  


    O'DONNELL:  Well, we thank you for your time and we'll see you on the campaign trail.  Thank you, Senator Rubio.  




  • Dayside Leadership

    Below is a note to staff from MSNBC President Phil Griffin: 



    I’m writing to share two announcements for MSNBC’s dayside leadership team as we push ahead with our successful focus on in-depth coverage and breaking news.

    Jamie Kraft will join MSNBC as Senior Executive Producer of Dayside Programming, reporting to Janelle Rodriguez.  Jamie, of course, comes to us after four remarkable years as EP of Nightly News weekend editions.  In his new role, he will direct our on-air weekday programming and oversee the dayside executive producers.  Jamie will partner with Rashida Jones, who, as Managing Editor, adeptly drives day-to-day newsgathering and editorial plans.  In addition, Rashida will now oversee MSNBC’s unilateral reporters and field producers.  Under Janelle’s leadership, Jamie and Rashida will expand on the exponential ratings growth in dayside.

    We have rapidly made huge strides thanks in part to the work of Pat Burkey who, along with Izzy Povich, spent the last nine months training a small army of breaking news producers, driving dynamic political coverage, and fueling triple-digit ratings growth.

    Pat will build on this success in a pivotal new role on MSNBC’s executive team leading Breaking News and Special Event Programming, reporting to me. Since returning to MSNBC from Nightly News in September, Pat led countless hours of major breaking news coverage outside the 9am-5pm window -- including Pope Francis’ visit to America, the terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, and primetime primary nights.  He will now focus his talents in this realm full time and continue to work closely with Brian Williams as we look ahead to conventions, debates, election night, and beyond.

    It’s remarkable to reflect on how far our entire network has come in the last year.  The momentum is with us, and I’m excited to see what’s ahead as we go forward together.





    “Morning Joe” Beats CNN in Both Total Viewers and Demo; Prime Beats CNN in Total Viewers

    MSNBC Dayside Growth Soars Over CNN and Fox News

    MSNBC Year-to-Year Gains Far Outpace CNN and Fox News in All Key Dayparts

    JUNE 1, 2016 -- MSNBC delivered the most total day growth in cable news for the month of May 2016 (M-Su 6am-6am), averaging gains of +61% in total viewers and +49% in the A25-54 demo versus May 2015. By comparison, CNN was up just +33% in total viewers and +20% in the demo, and Fox News was up +19% in total viewers and +11% in the demo. MSNBC’s year-to-year rise far outpaces that of CNN and Fox News in all key dayparts and metrics.

    “Morning Joe” (M-F 6-9am) topped CNN’s “New Day” in both total viewers (583,000 vs. 431,000) and the A25-54 demo (147,000 vs. 127,000) for the second straight month, also marking the MSNBC program’s 15th consecutive monthly win over CNN in total audience. “Morning Joe” is posting huge gains versus May 2015: up +91% in A25-54 (compared to just +6% for CNN and +2% for Fox News), and up +63% in total viewers (compared to CNN at +24% and Fox News at +14%).

    MSNBC’s strategic shift to a breaking news focus during the day continues to deliver unrivaled year-to-year growth. During May 2016, MSNBC dayside (M-F 9am-5pm) posted a demo surge of +119% over May 2015 -- nearly twelve times greater than CNN’s growth (+10%) and far outpacing that of Fox News (+5%). Among total viewers, MSNBC’s dayside programming expanded by +93%, compared to CNN at +23% and Fox News at +11%.

    MSNBC beat CNN in both total viewers in primetime (M-F 8-11pm) during May 2016, posting growth of +95% in total viewers and +100% in the demo versus May 2015. By comparison, CNN grew +50% in total viewers and +29% in the demo, and Fox News grew by +27% in total viewers and +19% in the demo.

    Other Highlights

    • “The Rachel Maddow Show” again ranked ahead of CNN in both total viewers (1.171 mil vs. 829,000) and the demo (283,000 vs. 261,000), extending its winning streak among total viewers to 36 consecutive months. 
    • “Hardball with Chris Matthews” topped CNN in total viewers (873,000 vs. 708,000) for the second straight month. 
    • “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” outpaced CNN in total viewers for the 12th consecutive month (957,000 vs.705,000). 
    • “MTP Daily with Chuck Todd” delivered strong year-to-year gains in the 5pm hour, up +98% in A25-54 and 31% in total viewers. 
    • “All In with Chris Hayes” grew by 90% in A25-54 and 69% in total viewers over May 2015.

    # # #


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